Kidults driving toy sales?

[The7thParallel]

This appeared in an NBC article. Seems about right. Nice to see despite Hasbro largely denying it for years.

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/adults-are-buying-toys-s-biggest-source-growth-industry-rcna62354

[MapleMegatron]

What that article says and what Hasbro says are not incompatible. Hasbro spending so much time and resources on collectors with special collector toys and media events from Pulse shows that we are a significant part to their growth and sales, like 30%, which is big. But kids are still 70% of the business, so we still remain a minority. I don't see anywhere in the article that goes against that. Instead, they mainly speak of growth (which is 1.8%). In terms of market share, they say the kidult market is only 25%, which is even less than what Hasbro had previously told us. I don't see how this article contradicts anything Hasbro's been saying or tells us anything new. If I have missed anything or misread it, please let me know.

[Grayfox]

The "kidult" word must die right now.

[Skorpulator]

But it describes perfectly what we are, whether we like it or not.

[RNSrobot]

No kidding. Yes, product for kids or bought for kids.but patently insane when Hasbro or fans continue claiming the adults are tiny fraction. Nah dawg.

[MapleMegatron]

Just an FYI, the article considers anyone above 11 to be a "kidult". So they lump in 12 year old lego fans with 30-40 year old transformers fans.

[Echotransformer]

I am a working professional, happily married with 2 kids.
I cross-country ski regularly
I do performance driving and training
I am an experienced windsurfer and sailor

It just so happens I love to collect Transformers, Die cast cars, Lego etc.

I bet just about everyone on this boards have multiple and interesting dimensions to their lives as well!

I agree with Greyfox! Kidult is a HORRIBLE term. It needs to go.

[The 12th Prime]

When I read kidult it made me feel sick and cringe. I agree the word has to go and the person who came up with it too. It feels toxic and outdated, the part of nostalgia we did not want to come with us yet did.

[Robimus]

What that article says and what Hasbro says are not incompatible. Hasbro spending so much time and resources on collectors with special collector toys and media events from Pulse shows that we are a significant part to their growth and sales, like 30%, which is big. But kids are still 70% of the business, so we still remain a minority. I don't see anywhere in the article that goes against that. Instead, they mainly speak of growth (which is 1.8%). In terms of market share, they say the kidult market is only 25%, which is even less than what Hasbro had previously told us. I don't see how this article contradicts anything Hasbro's been saying or tells us anything new. If I have missed anything or misread it, please let me know.

The minimalization of adult collectors has long been a talking point for the industry, one that made me raise an eyebrow a few times.

I'm going back to say the 2008 era on this, back when Hasbro used to do the fan q&as with fan forums, including this one and AFN.

Here is the transcript of a Bloomberg news article from 2010 where it claims adult toy sales are only responsible for 1.2% of toy sales at that point.

https://i.postimg.cc/MTvzLVx4/Screenshot-20221221-230242-Chrome.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

I think these new numbers are a far more realistic split - so that is a sizable change(or admittance to the change) than existed just over a decade ago.

I guess what I'm saying is kind of the reverse. I don't believe the
Adult collectors market was 1% of Hasbro's(granted the article says worldwide sales, which likely includes McDonalds +) business in 2010 - so to me this article does represent a change in tone from the industry towards us.

[joshimus]

The "kidult" word must die right now.
I find the word, in its essence, to be demeaning because the same standard isn't applied to other things, like kids play sports, adults play sports. No one calls it kidulting when adults continue to play sports.
for me it has nothing to do with being a kid at heart, which I am but it still has nothing to do with why I am a toy collector. I can afford to buy things I have always liked.
The reason I have no issues telling people I collect toys is because I put toy collecting on the same equal footing as everything else people like doing. Some people buy sports memorabilia, some people buy collectors cards, stamps, shoes, purses, maybe vacations, concerts, whatever the case may be, kidulting is NEVER applied to those nor should it be to anything people enjoy spending their money on.

[Transbot90210]

Hasbro caught on a long time ago.



I remember back in the 90's when we as fans would "beg" for figures. They would reply with a laugh and maybe throw us a bone in the form of a cheap repaint/remould. The answer was always, we cater to kids cuz fans don't buy enough to make a difference.



Fast Forward to today where toys are out of the price range to buy as gifts for kids and almost every figure is catering towards adults. HASLAB anyone?


3P was on fire back on 07 because Hasbro wasn't catering to fans. Today, most of the bog 3P groups are gone because Hasbro caters to collectors now.



I just love the contrast of how it was in the 90's to how it is today. A true golden age as a collector.

[Marcotron]

"It's a kid's toy, but that's not how I'm using it" -Will Ferrell

[JLvatron]

The "kidult" word must die right now.

Nah dawg.

So "Kidawgs" ?

I find the word, in its essence, to be demeaning because the same standard isn't applied to other things, like kids play sports, adults play sports. No one calls it kidulting when adults continue to play sports.

"Nerd" and "Geek" were derogatory words from the 70's/ 80's, that people use alot more freely now.

I guess kidults is the next term to demean us.

[Marcotron]

So "Kidawgs" ?



"Nerd" and "Geek" were derogatory words from the 70's/ 80's, that people use alot more freely now.

I guess kidults is the next term to demean us.


https://youtu.be/8Dd_qiuWxPs

"I identify as a meat popsicle." - Corben Dallas
The Fifth Element was truly ahead of its time.

[RNSrobot]

https://youtu.be/8Dd_qiuWxPs

"I identify as a meat popsicle." - Corben Dallas
The Fifth Element was truly ahead of its time.

Well on this weather we are all mear popsicles :D

LEELOO MULTIPASS

[Grayfox]

I find the word, in its essence, to be demeaning because the same standard isn't applied to other things, like kids play sports, adults play sports. No one calls it kidulting when adults continue to play sports.
for me it has nothing to do with being a kid at heart, which I am but it still has nothing to do with why I am a toy collector. I can afford to buy things I have always liked.

I guess kidults is the next term to demean us.

It is demeaning.

[evenstaves]

It is demeaning.

Agreed - this is bullsh*t that tryhards and old people use to put themselves above us

Man I literally heard this on the radio today driving in to work "they are now called kidults" etc
And the radio guy is all "hey man, I used to collect toys, y'know, cmon" but in a really conciliatory way, as if to say "but obviously I don't do it anymore, who would?" - like their precious image and their precious listener-base will surely drop this station at the drop of a hat upon hearing their DJs are "kidults"

F*ck all that sh*t, it's a fun thing that I never had the money to expand on as a kid - always at the mercy of parents' limited budgets, whichever card-backed (never the boxed ones obvs) were cheapest

And now I can afford to do it and society like "oh no u should be above this, you should be past this"
Man, f*ck you, this is why rich people and old people collect cars, it's f*cking fun

You bet your *ss they'll use it to put us down, this new made-up term

[Robimus]

KIDULTCON 2023!!!!!!!!

[timcrook]

Ok boomer

[Grayfox]

Agreed - this is bullsh*t that tryhards and old people use to put themselves above us

Man I literally heard this on the radio today driving in to work "they are now called kidults" etc
And the radio guy is all "hey man, I used to collect toys, y'know, cmon" but in a really conciliatory way, as if to say "but obviously I don't do it anymore, who would?" - like their precious image and their precious listener-base will surely drop this station at the drop of a hat upon hearing their DJs are "kidults"

F*ck all that sh*t, it's a fun thing that I never had the money to expand on as a kid - always at the mercy of parents' limited budgets, whichever card-backed (never the boxed ones obvs) were cheapest

And now I can afford to do it and society like "oh no u should be above this, you should be past this"
Man, f*ck you, this is why rich people and old people collect cars, it's f*cking fun

You bet your *ss they'll use it to put us down, this new made-up term

100%

One the one hand, we're supposedly responsible for the growth in toy sales and on the other, an idiotic and demeaning name is made up to designate us.

I can only hope this article will blow over and the internet will forever forget it.

[RNSrobot]

100%

One the one hand, we're supposedly responsible for the growth in toy sales and on the other, an idiotic and demeaning name is made up to designate us.

I can only hope this article will blow over and the internet will forever forget it.

There's a story I tell that gets to the social root of all of this:

Years ago in Edmonton, there was an overlap between an Eskimos CFL game and the pop culture convention. As people got on the LRT, various sports fans (identified by their jerseys, colors, etc) were mocking those dressed in cosplay and costumes. "look at these LOSERS."

Yet at every sports game, everybody dresses in uniform. Or the face paint. Or cheese hats. Or all kinds of things. Look up Raiders fans images... wow.

It's the same shit. You're spending money on playing dress-up, on "belonging." You buy merch and shit. SPorts fans displays are massive.

How is it any different from having a display of LEGO, or Transformers, or whatever?

It's not. It's simply society, and like the radio host above, reinforcing notions of what is or isn't "good."

Baseball fans are statistic MANIACS. Fantasy Football people are as nerdy as any D&D player.

People collect stamps with insane attention. Or... why is it acceptable and encouraged or even lauded to "deck out" your truck? Jesus, look at the truck toys you can buy these days. Or guys who spend all their money on their outdoor shit. Or beer league guys who spend a fortune on their hockey gear as if they're playing in any league that matters. Gas-powered RC racers go ham at hobby stores.

PICK YOUR POISON. That's all it is. If you're not skipping bills, meals, or family responsiblities, your money is yours.

Should I ever do my PHD, I may well write my thesis on this subject.

Grown ass adults can buy whatever they want. We all are nerds about something or other.

[MapleMegatron]

100%

One the one hand, we're supposedly responsible for the growth in toy sales and on the other, an idiotic and demeaning name is made up to designate us.

I can only hope this article will blow over and the internet will forever forget it.

That's the best scenario, the worst scenario is toy companies and retailers use this article as a reason to increase prices since "a quarter" of sales are going towards people with more disposable income.

[xueyue2]

so what's the difference between kidults and manchild? I saw a lot manchild usage on TFW2005 forum, 1st time see this kidults.

[JLvatron]

Ok boomer

Hank Hill: I think you meant "Boomhower".

so what's the difference between kidults and manchild? I saw a lot manchild usage on TFW2005 forum, 1st time see this kidults.

Oh, I hear you.
Just look at the amount of fans who use the terms Geek and Nerd freely.
They use it on themselves, and on others; even though these are still derogatory terms.

[RNSrobot]

Hank Hill: I think you meant "Boomhower".



Oh, I hear you.
Just look at the amount of fans who use the terms Geek and Nerd freely.
They use it on themselves, and on others; even though these are still derogatory terms.

to ME, and this may not be exclusive, manchild signifies a person who behaves with immaturity. It's not about them buying toys or whatever "kids" things.

It's a person who is the prototypical "MICHAEL BAY R4PED MY CHILDHOOD HASBLOW" rager who responds to the hobby, and others involved, with a constant sense of selfishness, foolishness, rage, "ruined my childhood," and especially as we see in other fandoms, notably star wars, "thre is a SINGLE RIGHT WAY" to do the thing. The religious sense.

Manchild is a person who in relation to other people behaves like a selfish, spoiled, entitled eight year old. We all take chirps and act like dumbasses sometimes, but a lot of these fans... live like this.

It's like @echotransformer said above (dear cybertron, please upgrade to what TFW has?).

I am a working professional, happily married with 2 kids.
I cross-country ski regularly
I do performance driving and training
I am an experienced windsurfer and sailor

It just so happens I love to collect Transformers, Die cast cars, Lego etc.

I bet just about everyone on this boards have multiple and interesting dimensions to their lives as well!

Many of us do. I'm a teacher, a father. I write and play music. I have multiple other interests. Transformers are a thing I like; not a thing that I *am*.

Some folks, however, have absolutely based their identities around the things that they like. Therefore, a Star Wars or Transformers or Whatever that Isn't Exactly What You Wnated becomes a personal attack. THAT is immaturity. Playing with toys isn't immature. Being unable to handle other opinions and other ideas of the thing is.

anyway.

[Skorpulator]

Years ago in Edmonton, there was an overlap between an Eskimos CFL game and the pop culture convention. As people got on the LRT, various sports fans (identified by their jerseys, colors, etc) were mocking those dressed in cosplay and costumes. "look at these LOSERS."

Yet at every sports game, everybody dresses in uniform. Or the face paint. Or cheese hats. Or all kinds of things. Look up Raiders fans images... wow.

To compare wearing a team jersey to cosplaying? Really? :rofl:

[RNSrobot]

To compare wearing a team jersey to cosplaying? Really? :rofl:

At the basic level, both groups of people are "wearing their colours."

A sports stadium is full of people dressed fundamentally alike.

So let's compare a jersey to just wearing a marvel t-shirt or some basic stuff.

Then let's talk about people who go to games with their:

* faces painted in team colours
* wearing flags or customized gear
* wearing ridiculous headgear


You have thousands of people all wearing the same colors, singing team songs, etc.

As a simple example, and there so many, google LA Raiders fans. Wowwwww. And I think it's AWESOME. The passion, the time, the effort, the elaborate costumes and outfits.

There is fundamentally no difference between somebody in a costume and somebody in... well, a costume.

So when you have a group of face-painted, highly costumed people insult and ridicult another group of same, just because the *source* of the fandom is different, that's a double-standard at play.

It's acceptable to be obsessive and wild in your sports fandom.

It is unacceptable to be obsessive and wild in your fantasy fandom.

Fantasy football is just D&D for sports fans. All the groups have die-hard fans absolutely obsessed with the most miniscule of stats.

It's all the same shit.

[Sun Swipe Prime]

PICK YOUR POISON. That's all it is. If you're not skipping bills, meals, or family responsiblities, your money is yours.

Should I ever do my PHD, I may well write my thesis on this subject.

Grown ass adults can buy whatever they want. We all are nerds about something or other.


Fantasy football is just D&D for sports fans. All the groups have die-hard fans absolutely obsessed with the most miniscule of stats.

It's all the same shit.

Couldn't agree with you more. I think most collectors are just regular people with unique hobbies that don't define who they are.

What's the difference between a obsessive hockey fan that can tell you how many goals/points certain players have had every year of their careers and some DnD nerd who can tell you all the stats for monsters and spells? Not much.

Ever go to a hockey pool and have that guy who brings print out after print out, breaking down player's points into a dozen different categories?

Go to any sports fan forum and you'll see the same shit behaviour/attitudes that goes on in TF forums.

I think a lot of it has to do with just finding people to other and punch down on. As someone who grew up collecting comics, I remember when comic books and superheroes were for nerds. You have a few thousand comics? That's weird. Now, after all the superhero movies, all my comics are now "Graphic Novels" and now it's cool that I know the histories of all these characters. And no one blinks if a wear an Avengers T-shirt.

[joshimus]

These are all reasons why I dont shy away from telling people I collect toys. It's just what I enjoy. If people think I'm a child for it, that sounds like a them problem.
I'm an adult with a home and mortgage free, work 50hr weeks, pay my taxes etc.
I know people that go to concerts all the time, or musicals.
I know people that go to sporting events, collect sports related stuff, have a fantasy game club
I know people that buy tons of shoes that get almost no rotation throughout the year, essentially making them no different than my display cases.

You can apply this to pretty much anything but the stigma that toy collectors are children has nothing to do with how we function as adults. I've never not liked toys. I used to like some sports as a kid but by the time I was maybe 15, I couldnt care less. Meanwhile there are people who memorized stats of players from 50 years ago. I dont mock them. Good for them. They enjoy it.

Then you have these purists that treat other people like shit, you're not fan enough.
Yes, I loved G1 as a kid but it's HARD to watch now. I'll take the 2000X series MOTU over the original, Revelations and the new cartoon (not that I hate the newer stuff, but I LOVED the 2000X series)
I like the Michael Bay movies, arguably TLK is imo the worst one, but I can still watch moments from it.
I like the new sequel SW trilogy. Could it have been better? Absolutely. Lots of missed opportunities, but then you have these screaming "OG ONLY", which is fine if those are the ones they love, but name calling and general being a dick about it makes NO sense to me.

All these things can be applied to almost any situation even outside of "geek" fandoms. Physical fights and rioting from games should be called out as unacceptable behaviour.

The world is full of double standards and Kidult is just one more added to the list.

[CyberDragon10K]

so what's the difference between kidults and manchild? I saw a lot manchild usage on TFW2005 forum, 1st time see this kidults.

Like I said on TFW, "Kidult" feels like them trying to sand the edges off of "Manchild" to me.

It's stilted, and reminds me of the video game genre Metroidvania, when in the early 2000s there were some people trying to pose the reverse portmanteau of Castleroid. I can't see Kidult taking over in the popular lexicon but maybe I lack vision, because I certainly could care less.

[RNSrobot]

Like I said on TFW, "Kidult" feels like them trying to sand the edges off of "Manchild" to me.

It's stilted, and reminds me of the video game genre Metroidvania, when in the early 2000s there were some people trying to pose the reverse portmanteau of Castleroid. I can't see Kidult taking over in the popular lexicon but maybe I lack vision, because I certainly could care less.

Castleroid sounds like a really great drug, or a really bad hemorrhoid. :primelaugh:

[CyberDragon10K]

Castleroid sounds like a really great drug, or a really bad hemorrhoid. :primelaugh:

That's probably why it didn't catch on. :rofl:

[ssjgoku22]

100%

One the one hand, we're supposedly responsible for the growth in toy sales and on the other, an idiotic and demeaning name is made up to designate us.

I can only hope this article will blow over and the internet will forever forget it.

I agree, the name is quite demeaning. Collectors have always been known as collectors, regardless if they collect action figures, cards, comic books, you name it. It's been like this for the past 100+ years, so I don't see the need to classify those who collect toys as "kidults". The only difference is that there are a lot more collectors nowadays.

[MapleMegatron]

The minimalization of adult collectors has long been a talking point for the industry, one that made me raise an eyebrow a few times.

I'm going back to say the 2008 era on this, back when Hasbro used to do the fan q&as with fan forums, including this one and AFN.

Here is the transcript of a Bloomberg news article from 2010 where it claims adult toy sales are only responsible for 1.2% of toy sales at that point.

https://i.postimg.cc/MTvzLVx4/Screenshot-20221221-230242-Chrome.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

I think these new numbers are a far more realistic split - so that is a sizable change(or admittance to the change) than existed just over a decade ago.

I guess what I'm saying is kind of the reverse. I don't believe the
Adult collectors market was 1% of Hasbro's(granted the article says worldwide sales, which likely includes McDonalds +) business in 2010 - so to me this article does represent a change in tone from the industry towards us.

Wow, that's quite contrast to the world I discovered when I started seriously collecting and keeping tabs on upcoming products in 2014/2015. John Watden soon came on-board with a big emphasis on satisfying older fans even though he was still making toys aimed to sell more to 6-10 year olds with 2 themed trilogies, we got that nice 70/30 split announcement from Hasbro (claiming that 30% of transformers toys end up in the hands of people aged 10 and up) followed by those cool exclusive botcon type sets but sold in retail stores like target, plus the launch of the MPM line as a Hasbro initiative and now the Haslab stuff and routine Pulse streams. Definitely come a long way.

[MapleMegatron]

I agree, the name is quite demeaning. Collectors have always been known as collectors, regardless if they collect action figures, cards, comic books, you name it. It's been like this for the past 100+ years, so I don't see the need to classify those who collect toys as "kidults". The only difference is that there are a lot more collectors nowadays.


I think the distinction the article wishes to make with the labeling is that the toys being purchased and advertised to older fans have a generational gap, inciting nostalgia. We collectors will probably pick up the upcoming Studio Series Optimus Primal because we collect Transfirners toys but someone who doesn't collect could pick it up because they remember Optimus Primal from the 90s, back when they were kids.
And that's the market where there is potential growth while us collectors are already accounted for due to our habits (like a guy collecting stamps for years).

[Jonnydark]

I think the term Kidult is as demeaning as you choose to interpret it. I think there will always be people turning their noses up at people having fun. Ironically thats their fun.

[alternatorfan]

Its an addiction.
No different than buying your favorite drug of choice.
Same principle.

[RansakWORK]

Its an addiction.
No different than buying your favorite drug of choice.
Same principle.

If you look through that recent BB collection thread one might agree with you but i dont think this applies to the majority.

[The Nemesis]

If you look through that recent BB collection thread one might agree with you but i dont think this applies to the majority.


What, you don't see people sprawled out in the Walmart aisles, slumped on the floor with a glazed look in their eyes as they huff a Studio Series 86 box?


I thought that was a pretty normal thing. :P

[GotBot]

If you look through that recent BB collection thread one might agree with you but i dont think this applies to the majority.

100 percent true. People are very blind and some are not o ly atill spending hand over fist but even defending things being overpriced. BUT, it seems to be starting to happen less and less buy the addicts are still super vocal.

[imfallenangel]

I think that it's funny that a term had to be made up for what I've been saying for years...

I wouldn't trust in these numbers whatsoever (as I have a background in statistical information and research) as these numbers do not separate the sections, sectors, types, lines and so on... As they appear to be a general number of "sales" for Hasbro, of course it's going to look a certain way, it's basically "fudging" the numbers. Across all of Hasbro's lines, only a few will be part of the "adult collector's interest", and if you were to focus properly on those, we'd see that the numbers would be extremely different.

I have no question that many lines, Transformers being a massive one, is very much collector driven, and it wouldn't surprise me that for such a line, we'd see anywhere from 50 to 70 percent being adult collector driven for many reasons that I won't bother with here.

The term can be most certainly looked as a bit of a "stop trying to make fetch happen" scenario... to me, it's no different than using "geek chic", which I use whenever I speak about the type of incoming collector that join a bandwagon without the true passion but want to be part of a group/bandwagon and I feel it appropriate. Not meant as an insult but part of a wave of a generation of collectors that can easily move from one line to another and have no real attachment unless they use it to define themselves with it (but would still move on should it no longer be "cool").

So anyways, it's always been a funny debate to watch the internet experts debate this and take offense as how they feel "judge" is more important than the actual hobby/passion for whatever they collect... I feel that such articles aren't a surprise, they are actually pretty stupid as it's nothing new that any fan of a line would know how much collectors have been spending, how the secondary market has ballooned in price, how the 3rd and 4th parties and KOs have blossomed... the TFs collector base is a lot more impressive than people tend to account for, and one shitty article is going to upset you? I'd say that one needs to ignore the term and instead of being upset, fandoms should exploit these and get to Hasbro to improve their quality and stop increasing prices instead, as if "articles" are showing that fandoms have impact on sales, we can push the industry to do better...

Anyways, again, just funny that I've had others argue about how collectors don't matter and that "it's a kid's product" when the main buyers are absolutely adults... no online retailer/store are getting kids making orders in the hundreds of dollars (even thousands), no kid walks into a store and heads out with a cart full of the new releases, no kid hunts across the stores to get the missing or hard to find new release or buy multiples, nor do kids get into the masterpieces and 3rd/4th parties stuff directly. Parents will buy for birthdays and special days (Christmas and the likes) and rarely would the parents do more than just grab what they see in a store, and few would go towards building their kid a proper collection unless they are involved/part of the collector's scene anyways, and are making their kids into a new generation of possible collectors.

[MapleMegatron]

I have no question that many lines, Transformers being a massive one, is very much collector driven, and it wouldn't surprise me that for such a line, we'd see anywhere from 50 to 70 percent being adult collector driven for many reasons that I won't bother with here.

50 to 70 percent of Cyberverse, Rescue Bots, Titan Changers and Earthspark toys are bought by people aged 18 and over?

I get how Studio Series, for instance, would skew older, but when looking at the transforners line as a whole, a bulk of their toy production is for lines that older fans aren't intrrested in. And there's gonna be a whole bunch more of those types of Transformers toys on shelves this year for the ROTB movie.

[Robimus]

50 to 70 percent of Cyberverse, Rescue Bots, Titan Changers and Earthspark toys are bought by people aged 18 and over?



We will never know for sure, but the more kidcentric lines do end up at discount retailers with more frequency than say Studio Series does.

That said to Hasbro a sale is a sale. If Walmart buys it, it's a sale. It doesn't matter where it goes after that.

There are Hasbro lines that imo are close to 100% adult driven. For instance GI Joe Classified has to be almost 100% collector driven, with next to no kid friendly sub lines. But I'd imagine it's more of an exception than a rule.

[imfallenangel]

50 to 70 percent of Cyberverse, Rescue Bots, Titan Changers and Earthspark toys are bought by people aged 18 and over?

I get how Studio Series, for instance, would skew older, but when looking at the transforners line as a whole, a bulk of their toy production is for lines that older fans aren't intrrested in. And there's gonna be a whole bunch more of those types of Transformers toys on shelves this year for the ROTB movie.

At the prices that most go for, from the posts that I've seen in forums, I'd say yes, mostly adults, with Rescue bots being the exception in part (more about that later), but again, I'd still say that the parents or such that will buy these for children may very well be collectors themselves of the other lines. At the high prices that all Transformers go for now regardless of line, they aren't going to have that many purchases by children but by their parents and most aren't going to spend hundreds(! as at 30+ $ each, 3 figures is over a hundred after taxes) to get a set of figures that the kid might not be all that invested in.

That's why I'm saying that without proper parameters for these statistics as per the article, anyone can state just about any numbers. Mine is using the observations from in store for every time I see people stop at the TFs isles and what I've seen in forums, online sales (stock vs sales from the online stores I deal with and get a general set of parameters for the numbers) and logical deduction, so some projections and generalized projections, as bit like most international statistics are assembled via corporal methodologies.

You say that "fans aren't interested in", but that's more your take on what they like compared to what you like, as just look at bot-bots, silly little things that was 100% directed to young kids and those ended up a massive item for adult collectors. (while I had no interest in them but never excluded anyone from enjoying them)

So yes, there's adult fans that actually collect all of the lines, not just what you'd consider as "collectible worthy".

Going back to the Rescue-bots, there's been enough posts in forums to indicate a fairly strong following, and on top of being a "collection" that parents (some most certainly being collectors of the other lines) gets for their kids.. I know that I've done such for my grand-nephew a few years ago and doing it for my grandson now, so I'm one of such people. Got to get him "trained" as when I pass, he's the one that the collection will most certainly go to.

[RNSrobot]

At the prices that most go for, from the posts that I've seen in forums, I'd say yes, mostly adults, with Rescue bots being the exception in part (more about that later), but again, I'd still say that the parents or such that will buy these for children may very well be collectors themselves of the other lines. At the high prices that all Transformers go for now regardless of line, they aren't going to have that many purchases by children but by their parents and most aren't going to spend hundreds(! as at 30+ $ each, 3 figures is over a hundred after taxes) to get a set of figures that the kid might not be all that invested in.

That's why I'm saying that without proper parameters for these statistics as per the article, anyone can state just about any numbers. Mine is using the observations from in store for every time I see people stop at the TFs isles and what I've seen in forums, online sales (stock vs sales from the online stores I deal with and get a general set of parameters for the numbers) and logical deduction, so some projections and generalized projections, as bit like most international statistics are assembled via corporal methodologies.

You say that "fans aren't interested in", but that's more your take on what they like compared to what you like, as just look at bot-bots, silly little things that was 100% directed to young kids and those ended up a massive item for adult collectors. (while I had no interest in them but never excluded anyone from enjoying them)

So yes, there's adult fans that actually collect all of the lines, not just what you'd consider as "collectible worthy".

Going back to the Rescue-bots, there's been enough posts in forums to indicate a fairly strong following, and on top of being a "collection" that parents (some most certainly being collectors of the other lines) gets for their kids.. I know that I've done such for my grand-nephew a few years ago and doing it for my grandson now, so I'm one of such people. Got to get him "trained" as when I pass, he's the one that the collection will most certainly go to.


I can't believe how expensive Cyberverse is.

I'm also gonna note that no matter the store, the Cyberverse pegs are ALWAYS full. So either they sell out all the time or they constantly restock. It's almost certainly the former. And frankly, if kids have allowance/xmas money/whatever, they're probably spending it on roblox, fortnite, battle passes, apps and in-game purchases, video games, pokemon. As much as TRU sucks, I think it's clear that the TF assortment has shrunk because it simply doesn't sell like other things.

The Generations stuff outside of certain warmers moves. Particularly G1 based. Usually not hard to find most Bayverse studio series stuff.

The thing you say that tracks the most for me is your description of how damned hard it is to get toys at this point. Kids aren't doing pre-orders, hunting five walmarts, etc etc. Few kids are collecting the Legacy Menasor pieces, or excited because we're getting a voyager Tarn.

[MapleMegatron]

I think we're losing track of this thing. Of course its mostly adults buying toys, just like it's always been, but I thought the debate was who they are purchased for.

In terms of product output though, we have those facts with cargo ship ledgers that people in the industry post at times on forums (anyone curious can ask Silver Optimus on TFW). And it seems roughly that non collector focused lines (like Cyberverse) outweigh the more collector focused lines (like Studio Series) two to one. Now how many of the flip and change one steps end up bought by adults are bought for kids rather than themselves, we don't know.

Though from my experience looking at boards I would be surprised if 75% of Cyberverse toys were purchased by collectors for themselves as many posts made it look like them simply existing was an insult to the brand. And posts about a new kid targeted toy being revealed have endless "trash" gif comments. That's where I was coming from when looking at those lines.

[RNSrobot]

I think we're losing track of this thing. Of course its mostly adults buying toys, just like it's always been, but I thought the debate was who they are purchased for.

In terms of product output though, we have those facts with cargo ship ledgers that people in the industry post at times on forums (anyone curious can ask Silver Optimus on TFW). And it seems roughly that non collector focused lines (like Cyberverse) outweigh the more collector focused lines (like Studio Series) two to one. Now how many of the flip and change one steps end up bought by adults are bought for kids rather than themselves, we don't know.

Though from my experience looking at boards I would be surprised if 75% of Cyberverse toys were purchased by collectors for themselves as many posts made it look like them simply existing was an insult to the brand. And posts about a new kid targeted toy being revealed have endless "trash" gif comments. That's where I was coming from when looking at those lines.

I would wager fewer and fewer parents/grandparents buy their kids Transformers for bday/christmas/etc.

[imfallenangel]

I can't believe how expensive Cyberverse is.

I'm also gonna note that no matter the store, the Cyberverse pegs are ALWAYS full. So either they sell out all the time or they constantly restock. It's almost certainly the former. And frankly, if kids have allowance/xmas money/whatever, they're probably spending it on roblox, fortnite, battle passes, apps and in-game purchases, video games, pokemon. As much as TRU sucks, I think it's clear that the TF assortment has shrunk because it simply doesn't sell like other things.

The Generations stuff outside of certain warmers moves. Particularly G1 based. Usually not hard to find most Bayverse studio series stuff.

The thing you say that tracks the most for me is your description of how damned hard it is to get toys at this point. Kids aren't doing pre-orders, hunting five walmarts, etc etc. Few kids are collecting the Legacy Menasor pieces, or excited because we're getting a voyager Tarn.

Yup... such lines tend to sit there, with only the figures that has appeal to the collectors and can fit somewhat well with the mainline will be gone, but I've seen lots of comments in threads about Cyberverse figure, and I'd have to say that Arcee is probably the most common of the purchases by collectors, along with some of the creatures...

Myself I love many of them such as Arcee (damn how she really yellowed), the Quintessons (holy crap those are amazing! ended up getting a bunch), Scraplets, Clobber and many others have all been regulars in discussions.

I think we're losing track of this thing. Of course its mostly adults buying toys, just like it's always been, but I thought the debate was who they are purchased for.

In terms of product output though, we have those facts with cargo ship ledgers that people in the industry post at times on forums (anyone curious can ask Silver Optimus on TFW). And it seems roughly that non collector focused lines (like Cyberverse) outweigh the more collector focused lines (like Studio Series) two to one. Now how many of the flip and change one steps end up bought by adults are bought for kids rather than themselves, we don't know.

Though from my experience looking at boards I would be surprised if 75% of Cyberverse toys were purchased by collectors for themselves as many posts made it look like them simply existing was an insult to the brand. And posts about a new kid targeted toy being revealed have endless "trash" gif comments. That's where I was coming from when looking at those lines.

We aren't losing track at all, it's a question of seeing what you want to see according to what and how you collect... not being mean here, just saying that there's a LOT being said about every line in so many threads, and on top of that, so many collectors that aren't on any forums or such (met a lot of "invisible" fans during events, sometimes at stores, that I got into great conversations) because they saw too much drama in the forums, feel separated from the fandom and collect on their own in a detached way, etc.

And what you describe about the crappy behavior of many, is why I have the note in my signature about childish crap gets people on my ignore list, and that list grows especially during releases of new stuff and the toxic people show their colours about only "their" way of collecting is valid and so on.

Once filtered, you can see that there is positive, but note that the toxic crap ends up making people just leave the threads...

I would wager fewer and fewer parents/grandparents buy their kids Transformers for bday/christmas/etc.

It's a fair wager as I've spent enough time in isles watching what the kids go for, what the adults go for, and so many times it was "pick up the transformer, look at it, check the price, leave the transformer there and move on"... I've seen carts with toys all the time, just about anything and everything, but Transformers, it's rare as hell. I've seen a lot of adult guys, which as mentioned, I pick up a conversation with them and almost every time is was a collector, some from even this forums, others from the Facebook groups, but a few that just collected without care about any social media stuff and just hunted locally.

Hell, I've seen someone (adult guy) fill his cart with a single figure (like a good dozen or more of them.. aka the whole stock of the store)... and that's more than once. Guess I witnessed the local scalper at work.

[MapleMegatron]

We aren't losing track at all, it's a question of seeing what you want to see according to what and how you collect

I'm just here for the facts and getting a better understanding of my hobby. The article is about adults buying toys for themselves as opposed to buying it for kids, so that should be distinguished within our discussion. That is all I was trying to say.

And I wish to thank you for all the info you've provided.

[RNSrobot]

Yup... such lines tend to sit there, with only the figures that has appeal to the collectors and can fit somewhat well with the mainline will be gone, but I've seen lots of comments in threads about Cyberverse figure, and I'd have to say that Arcee is probably the most common of the purchases by collectors, along with some of the creatures...

Myself I love many of them such as Arcee (damn how she really yellowed), the Quintessons (holy crap those are amazing! ended up getting a bunch), Scraplets, Clobber and many others have all been regulars in discussions.



We aren't losing track at all, it's a question of seeing what you want to see according to what and how you collect... not being mean here, just saying that there's a LOT being said about every line in so many threads, and on top of that, so many collectors that aren't on any forums or such (met a lot of "invisible" fans during events, sometimes at stores, that I got into great conversations) because they saw too much drama in the forums, feel separated from the fandom and collect on their own in a detached way, etc.

And what you describe about the crappy behavior of many, is why I have the note in my signature about childish crap gets people on my ignore list, and that list grows especially during releases of new stuff and the toxic people show their colours about only "their" way of collecting is valid and so on.

Once filtered, you can see that there is positive, but note that the toxic crap ends up making people just leave the threads...



It's a fair wager as I've spent enough time in isles watching what the kids go for, what the adults go for, and so many times it was "pick up the transformer, look at it, check the price, leave the transformer there and move on"... I've seen carts with toys all the time, just about anything and everything, but Transformers, it's rare as hell. I've seen a lot of adult guys, which as mentioned, I pick up a conversation with them and almost every time is was a collector, some from even this forums, others from the Facebook groups, but a few that just collected without care about any social media stuff and just hunted locally.

Hell, I've seen someone (adult guy) fill his cart with a single figure (like a good dozen or more of them.. aka the whole stock of the store)... and that's more than once. Guess I witnessed the local scalper at work.

It's 35 bucks for a deluxe. You're getting a helluva lot more value for a 35 Lego set.

[imfallenangel]

I'm just here for the facts and getting a better understanding of my hobby. The article is about adults buying toys for themselves as opposed to buying it for kids, so that should be distinguished within our discussion. That is all I was trying to say.

And I wish to thank you for all the info you've provided.

Oh, no problem and that's been what was being said, that for sure there are some purchases meant for children, but that every line has their adult fanbase without question.

The article crams everything together, not just TFs and that was my original point. The same would apply to Star Wars or Marvel/DC lines too... and same for any line that draws a large (adult) fanbase.

That's why I stated thay the collectors do have a fairly stronger impact that people realize it/ give credit to, just think about it .. the movies were not truly really all that younger child friendly, the big announcement events, the funding campaigns, the fan votes, ect. So it's kinda a given that Hasbro does its homework.

I will always see the funding campaigns as more a way for Hasbro to test the waters for pricing for future items and price hikes as while some people in Hasbro might be really passionate about the lines, the cutting of corners end up showing that Hasbro doesn't care all that much at the higher levels of management and it's simply a business and to make as much money as they can (as shown on the behind the scene threads).

[savagephil]

It's clearly obvious that any kind of 80's property. Transformers, gi Joe, masters of the universe, etc are gonna be driven by adults. Kids today don't even know what gi joe is, masters etc. Transformers they do, due to cartoons, and maybe a the bay films and bumblebee. But the generations and studio series line I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of them are being funded by adults.

I had Transformers as a kid. Then went back into collecting when the classics line came out, when my kids saw the bayverse they liked it. My youngest one now is turning 18 in June, and him and I collect the mainline stuff like prime wars trilogy, wfc, legacy and studio series, and we both have fun with it. He sold the older versions of characters to get the newer versions if they are better.

Another huge problem is that the price range for a lot of these properties are out of reach for young kids, and parents. Look how much a leader class is. Deluxe class is a joke. Voyager seems to be the best bang for most people's buck. I can see some kids buying up marvel legends figures, but not entire waves.

I know those super mario toys sell extremely well with children . And wait when the movie comes out. Those toys are gonna sell like hot cakes. My nephews have tons of the 4 inch and 2inch lines

Nothing wrong with adults enjoy a hobby of things that brought them joy when they were younger.

[CyberDragon10K]

I know those super mario toys sell extremely well with children . And wait when the movie comes out. Those toys are gonna sell like hot cakes. My nephews have tons of the 4 inch and 2inch lines

Are we talking the Jakk's Pacific toys you see commonly on shelves? I remember grabbing a 6" Metroid Prime Metroid from TRU a long time ago.

I've always thought it was neat that someone was finally putting out mainstream Nintendo toys; used to own the McDonald's Super Mario Bros. pack-in toys from back in the day.

And yeah, that upcoming movie and tertiary/related product is going to print money out the wazoo.

[RNSrobot]

Are we talking the Jakk's Pacific toys you see commonly on shelves? I remember grabbing a 6" Metroid Prime Metroid from TRU a long time ago.

I've always thought it was neat that someone was finally putting out mainstream Nintendo toys; used to own the McDonald's Super Mario Bros. pack-in toys from back in the day.

And yeah, that upcoming movie and tertiary/related product is going to print money out the wazoo.



Doesn't matter how much dorks screech about Chris Pratt as Mario, that sucker is gonna make all the coin. My kids are so excited.

[savagephil]

Yep the jakks pacific ones. Bought nephew the 6inch bowser Mario bomb omb 3 pack from GameStop, along with Iggy koopa and yoshi. Boy was he a happy camper, those things are really well done surprisingly well articulated at that scale. The 2inch line has way more characters tons of playsets but limited articulation.

Oh ya that movie wouldn't surprise me if it does over a billion dollars. People always forget Mario Luigi originally were Italian from Brooklyn, not Italian from Italy lol. But ever sense Mario 64 the voice actor used a straight from Italy accent and it's been like that ever since

[timcrook]

I hope Hasbro won't use this as an excuse to raise prices.

[canprime]

I hope Hasbro won't use this as an excuse to raise prices.


HA!


Like they need an excuse. They'll just do it and say "reasons."