The Siege Ultra Magnus pic, seems like Voyager class

[xueyue2]

Saw it here:

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/5984348262


http://www.cybertron.ca/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=42342&stc=1&d=1545399275

[Pascal]

It's a Voyager class truck that's barely any taller with the armour on in robot mode. It's Leader by mass, not by size. Same deal with Shockwave I think.

[GotBot]

Pascal is right. It is about mass of plastic used. that said, I'm not sold on the new one. I might just stick with CW, truth be told. We shall see.

[oroboru]

It’s going to be a tough sell to people with the MP.

[justprime]

Only saving grace is if you like the R.I.D. look ,..still price point for all of this line is the issue... especially since like in the wash they have shrunken.....

[xueyue2]

For Voyager class, FPJ add-onmight be better than this one, right?

[oroboru]

For Voyager class, FPJ add-onmight be better than this one, right?

Probably. Problem is price of admission for this figure is pretty high.

[MapleMegatron]

It’s going to be a tough sell to people with the MP.

Why? They are completely different takes on a chracter. The MP doesnt have a small inner Prime like in G1, this one does. Its something fans have asked for a long time, I think it will sell pretty well.

[oroboru]

Why? They are completely different takes on a chracter. The MP doesnt have a small inner Prime like in G1, this one does. Its something fans have asked for a long time, I think it will sell pretty well.

Because it’s just not that impressive from a combined perspective. At least not for 70 bucks

[justprime]

A 9inch tall leader class for 70 bucks

[Shockwave 75]

Like Pascal and GoBot have said above, it's not about height, it's about mass.
Ultra Magnus is one of the only Siege figures I'm actually interested in so far. And I don't compare him to CW Magnus because, AFAIC, they are two different characters. CW is IDW Magnus, and so far Siege is G1 Magnus.


Maguns, Shockwave, and Starscream are the only ones I want so far. As it is, Siege looks to be a big money saver for me. More cash for Botbots!!

[optimusb39]

^^^
im out...

[wervenom]

Its something fans have asked for a long time

No disrespect but I'd be in the minority as I wouldn't want that

[Matrix_Holder]

Siege magnus isn't g1 magnus, he's a combination of rid 2000 magnus and g1 magnus. He's close but not quite g1, and He's not worth $70 either because he's a voyager.

[RNSrobot]

Like Pascal and GoBot have said above, it's not about height, it's about mass.
Ultra Magnus is one of the only Siege figures I'm actually interested in so far. And I don't compare him to CW Magnus because, AFAIC, they are two different characters. CW is IDW Magnus, and so far Siege is G1 Magnus.


Maguns, Shockwave, and Starscream are the only ones I want so far. As it is, Siege looks to be a big money saver for me. More cash for Botbots!!

His truck mode is almost a direct riff on RID/Car Robots Magnus.

[Collectingtoys]

As long as we all agree the great Robert Stack was the perfect choice to voice Ultra Magnus.

[oroboru]

As long as we all agree the great Robert Stack was the perfect choice to voice Ultra Magnus.

I hear he can’t deal with that right now.

[Shockwave 75]

Siege magnus isn't g1 magnus, he's a combination of rid 2000 magnus and g1 magnus. He's close but not quite g1, and He's not worth $70 either because he's a voyager.

His truck mode is almost a direct riff on RID/Car Robots Magnus.
Its called a homage. Because other than the vehicle mode, he's clearly G1 Magnus.

[Matrix_Holder]

Combiner wars magnus was just as G1 as siege is, a very G1 alt mode but a stylized bot mode, not quite g1 but an homage but at least he was a leader class figure and not a beefed up voyager priced as a leader class figure.

[oroboru]

Combiner wars magnus was just as G1 as siege is, a very G1 alt mode but a stylized bot mode, not quite g1 but an homage but at least he was a leader class figure and not a beefed up voyager priced as a leader class figure.

I’d argue CW Magnus is more G1 than Seige is. We all agree both robot modes are G1 homages, but only CW has the vehicle mode to go with that.

[TRUCKvsGUN]

Not a fair comparison. That CW one was crazy-hollow and the cab was a brick that bricked into his chest.

Why do people judge toys based on height? When has height ever been a real measure of the value of anything?

[positivelyken]

Nobody's wrong for asking themselves if they can justify paying $70 for this figure.

My personal feeling is that Hasbro is asking us to pay more for less toy at nearly every size class, and my buying habits are adjusting accordingly.

[oroboru]

Not a fair comparison. That CW one was crazy-hollow and the cab was a brick that bricked into his chest.

Why do people judge toys based on height? When has height ever been a real measure of the value of anything?

Personally I judge based on paint apps and actual number of moving parts.

[alternatorfan]

Man even with shockwaves armour on it still a voyager deluxe at best not leader by any means.
On well worst $70 bucks spent.

[RNSrobot]

Its called a homage. Because other than the vehicle mode, he's clearly G1 Magnus.

Yes, nothing wrong with the homage. But if I want a g1 esque modern Magnus toy, I'd like the truck mode to match. Cw Magnus is much closer. The "real robot inside" conceit is toyetic and has nothing to do with ultra Magnus the character or as animated.

[Deception]

Not a fair comparison. That CW one was crazy-hollow and the cab was a brick that bricked into his chest.

Why do people judge toys based on height? When has height ever been a real measure of the value of anything?

i created my collection based on height or at least close to it. it's never going to be perfect but when you have leaders close to the size of voyagers but charge more its going to tick people off. it's all personal preferance in the end. i built my chug collection based on characters from g1 and scale. ya a lot of them aren't legit g1 but i mean its close enough. seige ultra magnus has the look of g1 ultra magnus just not big enough to put with deluxes. i'd rather have that extra height over mass imo.

[imfallenangel]

I have both leaders next to me right now, transformed them a few times each, put them next to the rest of the Siege, along with many others...

I already debated the price issues of the Siege to death, and I do believe that they are overpriced if just in general.

That said, I did get the whole of the line because they are extremely nice, the figures and alt modes that I am interested in, and finally is a line with decent plastics.

So are they small for leaders?... Yes, quite. But the extra parts do make them much larger in the alt mode. And aside some items that could have seriously (and easily) been improved on, compared to so many figures in the last few years, they are overall better... It's sad that I have to judge them as "well, not as bad as what we've been getting lately", but are we are.

In robot mode, Shockwave is a bit different than previous versions with his add-ons, silly even, but still works in his own way, but is the same size as Megatron/Optimus with added on pieces. He's about more firepower.

Ultra Magnus is different... I absolutely love the white cab robot (finally a proper one) which very similar to Optimus, is a tad thicker, stronger looking. Next to Megatron, he looks like Megatron would get a whooping, and that's even before the trailer armour. With the armour on, he is a tad taller, but is much more "dense/massive", which to me, it great... I'd rather this than having him much taller, looking out of whack with the rest of the line. He looks like Optimus' bigger and stronger brother, that then puts on a legendary power armour, which could easily kick Megatron's butt across a field and not even break a sweat. He's about huge armour, massive strength, and, combine his weapons together to have a massive gun.

My biggest grievance for him is the trailer, which was not designed to carry any cars inside, something that could have been easily done with just a few tweaks.

So far, my biggest peeve with this line is that Optimus should have had a trailer (G1 type would have been great), So I hope a 3rd party does something decent.

So this to say that I absolutely do regret that it's so much money, but I have no regrets at having them at all.

[BludChylde]

i built my chug collection based on characters from g1 and scale. ya a lot of them aren't legit g1 but i mean its close enough.

This is what aggravates me the most about the fandom. I don't know how many times people throw the term scale around and have no clue about what scaling even is. From many screen shots I've seen in Siege Magnus' defense. He is a good height compared to a lot of voyager and deluxe characters. Hasbro screwed the pooch with the over size Leader Class toys. Overlord would look cool towering over Siege UM. POTP Rodimus Prime would look ridiculous.

Never bought POTP Optimus or Rodimus for one reason only. Neither character combines with their trailer or vehicle mode rear end to become a really tall robot. Having the characters stand that damn tall looks wrong. Yes they are taller than a lot of characters, but they shouldn't be standing that tall compared to everyone else. The Siege line is taking us away from a direction the line never should have went in the first place. Yes Magnus is Voyager sized, but could the trailer gimmick be viable at Voyager pricing? Shockwave I'll give you, don't care for 4 arm mode, the sled/drone looks nice, but he could have easily been released as a Voyager. Wouldn't be surprised if the additions were due to someone going "Oh crap, he looks too much like a gun. Let's get some removable spaceship-like parts before someone raises a fuss."

But then too, we are supposed to act like Groove can form an equal size limb to his team mates or that Bruticus somehow doesn't have 4 different sized limbs. But wtf do I know.

[Ironwave]

Except for MP Magnus, Siege Magnus is the best looking figure out there

[imfallenangel]

This is what aggravates me the most about the fandom. I don't know how many times people throw the term scale around and have no clue about what scaling even is. From many screen shots I've seen in Siege Magnus' defense. He is a good height compared to a lot of voyager and deluxe characters. Hasbro screwed the pooch with the over size Leader Class toys. Overlord would look cool towering over Siege UM. POTP Rodimus Prime would look ridiculous.

Never bought POTP Optimus or Rodimus for one reason only. Neither character combines with their trailer or vehicle mode rear end to become a really tall robot. Having the characters stand that damn tall looks wrong. Yes they are taller than a lot of characters, but they shouldn't be standing that tall compared to everyone else. The Siege line is taking us away from a direction the line never should have went in the first place. Yes Magnus is Voyager sized, but could the trailer gimmick be viable at Voyager pricing? Shockwave I'll give you, don't care for 4 arm mode, the sled/drone looks nice, but he could have easily been released as a Voyager. Wouldn't be surprised if the additions were due to someone going "Oh crap, he looks too much like a gun. Let's get some removable spaceship-like parts before someone raises a fuss."

But then too, we are supposed to act like Groove can form an equal size limb to his team mates or that Bruticus somehow doesn't have 4 different sized limbs. But wtf do I know.

I've always wished that they (Hasbro/Takara) would do a proper scale series that would define the scale across all, including having to reconsider some of the figures and their alt mode so that they would be 100% (as much as possible) accurate, which would mean an average "starting" size for all the main characters to be a scout size... this would allow for such as Prime (or such) to be with his trailer at full deluxe "size", and then have the larger ones such are the jets, space shuttles, trains, etc. to be feasible in the larger sizes (similar to Leaders or even larger). This would make it great to release bases, Titans that would actually be usable with internal rooms, space, etc. Transport ships, etc.

For POTP Optimus, I bought it simply because I wanted at least one decent Optimus with an actual trailer, and the robot, actually looks amazing. But I consider that he's a stand-alone piece that I will never use as "scaled" to anything else... if anything, the Prime that I still consider the best G1 Prime is the Classics (https://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:ClassicsPrime_Vs.jpg) as it's simply amazing in it's simplicity for transformation, the robot is G1 cartoon accurate for it's size, and the truck is very passable, and he's made with excellent plastic. He is an example of how to do things right. Siege is excellent but the kibble is the weak point... (and both lack a trailer which is simply horrible).

And once you get both Ultra Magnus and Shockwave in hand, you get the feel of them, and they aren't too bad.

The worse thing I can say about Siege is that 1) you can see that while the plastic is great compared to so many for many years now, it's already showing that many pegs are loose out of the box, and will get loose (or looser)... and still too much emptiness syndromes in parts... Oddly, Prime is probably to best to be "full".. but the two leaders, way too much emptiness in parts.

[ssjgoku22]

Takara/Hasbro really don't care how these figures are going to scale with previous lines. Seige and everything onwards is all new and they're probably going to redo a bunch of characters we have already seen (like Rodimus and the likes). As long as the figures are good quality (so far so good), I'll happily buy them for a different scaled display.

[xueyue2]

Add fuel to the fire!


Another V and L class. ;)
And before someone try to justify this... they are from the same SS line.

http://www.cybertron.ca/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=42708&stc=1&d=1547995977

[Pascal]

Perfect, his robot mode height should stay the same.

[xueyue2]

Perfect, his robot mode height should stay the same.


yeah, I think the scale is perfect... just not the price difference.

[Shockwave 75]

Add fuel to the fire!


Another V and L class. ;)
And before someone try to justify this... they are from the same SS line.

http://www.cybertron.ca/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=42708&stc=1&d=1547995977

yeah, I think the scale is perfect... just not the price difference.
It's obvious just from looking at that picture what the difference is.

DOTM Megs clearly has more mass, more paint, a removable weapon and that cloak.

That all costs money to produce, which means we have to pay more for it.

Price points aren't based on figure size, they're based on how much money it costs to make them.


My personal favorite comparison is to put CW Megatron next to TR Overlord. Both are leader class toys, but Megatron looks more like an expensive toy. He looks much bigger and more complex. But according to the way Hasbro prices things out they have about the same amount of plastic in them, which is where most of the cost comes from.

[Pascal]

Listen to this man. ^

[riderman]

Nobody's wrong for asking themselves if they can justify paying $70 for this figure.

My personal feeling is that Hasbro is asking us to pay more for less toy at nearly every size class, and my buying habits are adjusting accordingly.

My wallet is aching but Magnus does look good beside Prime but for 70 bucks?

[xueyue2]

It's obvious just from looking at that picture what the difference is.

DOTM Megs clearly has more mass, more paint, a removable weapon and that cloak.

That all costs money to produce, which means we have to pay more for it.




It's not like SS ROTF Voyager Megatron a crappy toy. Do you actually think the "more mass, more paint, a removable weapon and that cloak." really worth the extra price?

[imfallenangel]

My wallet is aching but Magnus does look good beside Prime but for 70 bucks?

Ditto..

and I'm feeling both: 1) I can't wait, and 2) very afraid when Omega Supreme is revealed and released.

I'm not sure what I'll get in the next waves aside Soundwave, the cassettes, Ironhide, Sixgun, Brunt, and Starscream...

[riderman]

Ditto..

and I'm feeling both: 1) I can't wait, and 2) very afraid when Omega Supreme is revealed and released.

I'm not sure what I'll get in the next waves aside Soundwave, the cassettes, Ironhide, Sixgun, Brunt, and Starscream...

Can't wait for the second wave. Wonder how the ironhide will look like. By the way Prime has such a huge backpack. If only Hasbro or somebody with a 3D printer should make a jetpack on top of that ugly backpack because they do have 2 ports back there. Come on Hasbro it's 2019 can't we do without huge backpacks and bits and pieces here and there!

[ssjgoku22]

Add fuel to the fire!


Another V and L class. ;)
And before someone try to justify this... they are from the same SS line.

http://www.cybertron.ca/boards/attachment.php?attachmentid=42708&stc=1&d=1547995977

Remember though that RoF Megatron was a larger Voyager figure (about the same size as Blackout, who was a leader). For studio series, the sizes are more due to movie accuracy, so it makes sense to keep Megatron around the same height.

[imfallenangel]

Can't wait for the second wave. Wonder how the ironhide will look like. By the way Prime has such a huge backpack. If only Hasbro or somebody with a 3D printer should make a jetpack on top of that ugly backpack because they do have 2 ports back there. Come on Hasbro it's 2019 can't we do without huge backpacks and bits and pieces here and there!

Ask and ye shall receive...

New Ironhide preview/review is out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYCPLSmADaw

[BludChylde]

Ask and ye shall receive...

New Ironhide preview/review is out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYCPLSmADaw

He looks amazing. I was wondering why his weapon had extra 5mm pegs and now I know its for a hammer mode. I'm a little sad though, outside of PotP, I don't remember the last series I was able to pick up wave 2 figures at Walmart.

[riderman]

Ask and ye shall receive...

New Ironhide preview/review is out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYCPLSmADaw

Thanks! Just hate all the hollow plastic but it can't be helped because of transformation. Sadly when I get it I have to deal with that missing paint and maybe use a Gundam Marker or some dry brushing to bring out the details on those panels and designs all over the vehicle and figure.

[Nocturn]

Takara/Hasbro really don't care how these figures are going to scale with previous lines. Seige and everything onwards is all new and they're probably going to redo a bunch of characters we have already seen (like Rodimus and the likes). As long as the figures are good quality (so far so good), I'll happily buy them for a different scaled display.

+1. Expecting perfect scale when the toyline is forced into rigid price points, is just unreasonable. Even SS, with it's alleged focus on screen-accuracy and scale, gives us undersized and oversized figures, to fit the system that Hasbro has already established. Starscream and Brawl should be bigger compared to the carformers, for example, but there's only 3 different sizes in the line.

Add fuel to the fire!
Another V and L class. ;)
And before someone try to justify this... they are from the same SS line.

Yup that's some shit. Though DOTM clearly has more mass on him, it's marginal compared to the Voyager which sells for almost half the price of the leader.

My wallet is aching but Magnus does look good beside Prime but for 70 bucks?

$70 for a figure that's only slightly bigger than the size class below it... oui Hasbro. I wanted siege Magnus initially but pictures and reviews don't make it seem like the value is there.

It's not like SS ROTF Voyager Megatron a crappy toy. Do you actually think the "more mass, more paint, a removable weapon and that cloak." really worth the extra price?

Nope. However some folks will still buy it at full price, reinforcing these habits of Hasbro. So long as their product is selling, they have no reason to make it a better deal. Unfortunately.


My personal favorite comparison is to put CW Megatron next to TR Overlord. Both are leader class toys, but Megatron looks more like an expensive toy. He looks much bigger and more complex. But according to the way Hasbro prices things out they have about the same amount of plastic in them, which is where most of the cost comes from.

Plastic mass seems to be the #1 factor in determining a figure's size class these days. Though, as illustrated by your example, number of parts also palpably plays a large role in Hasbro's costing process, which is fair, but unfortunate for us. CW Megatron is incredibly simple for a figure his size, and while Sky Shadow/Overlord aren't crazy with their designs, they have more going on than Megs does. A more complex figure seems to lose out on size in order to "make budget" - which, at Hasbro's MSRP's, is nearly all profit to begin with. :argh:

[Shockwave 75]

It's not like SS ROTF Voyager Megatron a crappy toy. Do you actually think the "more mass, more paint, a removable weapon and that cloak." really worth the extra price?
To a point, yes. They are giving you more stuff so it's going to cost more. Would you rather all lines were relegated to Legends/Legion class just so they would be cheap? No one is forcing you to buy them. Vote with your wallet! If sales at these higher prices are down, Hasbro will have to make changes. Or wait till they're on sale, or you have a coupon or something.
Remember though that RoF Megatron was a larger Voyager figure (about the same size as Blackout, who was a leader). For studio series, the sizes are more due to movie accuracy, so it makes sense to keep Megatron around the same height.
Also remember that ROTF Megs has a completely hollow body. So while they are the same height, they don't have the same mass.

[79transam]

Just wait for the oversize KO.

[Deception]

This is what aggravates me the most about the fandom. I don't know how many times people throw the term scale around and have no clue about what scaling even is.


and whats wrong with wanting scaling? devastator is a big bot. is it wrong that someone would prefer optimus prime to be smaller? like i said it's never going to be perfect but as for toys go its as close as you're going to get. i have a unicron figure. its way out of scale but i keep him with my collection because he's a character i don't have. everyones interpretation of scale won't be the same. official comics/movies don't make it the same. dreamwave had combiners that were the size of sky scrapers, but i'm to expect Groove to be that big? i know what real scale is but most importantly i know what i want in terms of toys in MY collection. i mean these are toys not model kits, but it doesn't mean you can't swap figures from different lines to make up what you want. all i'm saying is i'd prefer magnus to be taller. i mean he's a leader sized figure, compared to other leader toys i've owned, they seem to be shrinking. look at rotf optimus leader prime, that thing was huge. look at the powermaster prime figure, he huge even without the upgrade. even the combiner wars ultra magnus is bigger. thats one i have and will be keeping.

[zhaobinis1]

Vote with your wallet! If sales at these higher prices are down, Hasbro will have to make changes.

To my own observation they are definitely not selling well. Even with a very limited stock of the first wave of Siege, they are still overstocked on the shelves. There are at least 10 voyager Megatron at Broadway TRU, and a few sets of micromasters. Although all Optimus are gone, I cant help worrying about the line when the second most charming characters is not selling.

[BludChylde]

and whats wrong with wanting scaling? devastator is a big bot. is it wrong that someone would prefer optimus prime to be smaller? like i said it's never going to be perfect but as for toys go its as close as you're going to get. i have a unicron figure. its way out of scale but i keep him with my collection because he's a character i don't have. everyones interpretation of scale won't be the same. official comics/movies don't make it the same. dreamwave had combiners that were the size of sky scrapers, but i'm to expect Groove to be that big? i know what real scale is but most importantly i know what i want in terms of toys in MY collection. i mean these are toys not model kits, but it doesn't mean you can't swap figures from different lines to make up what you want. all i'm saying is i'd prefer magnus to be taller. i mean he's a leader sized figure, compared to other leader toys i've owned, they seem to be shrinking. look at rotf optimus leader prime, that thing was huge. look at the powermaster prime figure, he huge even without the upgrade. even the combiner wars ultra magnus is bigger. thats one i have and will be keeping.


I'm all for scale, hell I even admit that he looks good in scale with deluxes already based on screen shots from the G1 cartoon. And I like Devastator. 6 big construction vehicles, all of them as big as "insert combiner's torso bot here" should make a massive combiner. He shouldn't be eye to eye with Superion. Predaking doesn't bother me because they are supposed to be superior killing machines compared to their real life animal counterparts. They should be big and beefy. I haven't bought PotP Prime, because OP in that class size is way too big. Same reason I didn't grab Rodimus either.

And with phrases like "everyones interpretation of scale won't be the same. official comics/movies don't make it the same." and "all i'm saying is i'd prefer magnus to be taller." show you know shit about scale. You have a preference. A preference isn't a scale. That's fine. Comics/movies/cartoons use different scales, true, but if you have a preference towards one form of media, it's easy to figure out a rough scale to work from and if everything. Everyone has a scale preference they prefer, mine's G1 cartoon based.

Don't make me sound like I'm against scale when I openly appreciate Siege taking us in the direction of an actual scale. Especially when you can't wrap your head around what scale actually means. Scale isn't this toy is tiny and that one is huge. I also am aware that scaling won't be perfect, but it looks like they are trying to get it right this time. Hell as a Marvel Legend collector I fully understand how frustrating scale can be due to the fact that any panel you can find to verify a character's size, there are probably 2 panels that contradict it.

[imfallenangel]

You were dropped on your head as an infant, right? I hate throwing around straw man fallacy, but Google the term. I like scale, I hate dumb shits who throw the word around without a clue how scale works.

I'm all for scale, hell I even admit that he looks good in scale with deluxes already based on screen shots from the G1 cartoon. And I like Devastator. 6 big construction vehicles, all of them as big as "insert combiner's torso bot here" should make a massive combiner. He shouldn't be eye to eye with Superion. Predaking doesn't bother me because they are supposed to be superior killing machines compared to their real life animal counterparts. They should be big and beefy. I haven't bought PotP Prime, because OP in that class size is way too big. Same reason I didn't grab Rodimus either.

And with phrases like "everyone's interpretation of scale won't be the same. official comics/movies don't make it the same." and "all i'm saying is i'd prefer magnus to be taller." show you know shit about scale. You have a preference. A preference isn't a scale. That's fine. Comics/movies/cartoons use different scales, true, but if you have a preference towards one form of media, it's easy to figure out a rough scale to work from and if everything. Everyone has a scale preference they prefer, mine's G1 cartoon based.

Don't make me sound like I'm against scale when I openly appreciate Siege taking us in the direction of an actual scale. Especially when you can't wrap your head around what scale actually means. Scale isn't this toy is tiny and that one is huge. I also am aware that scaling won't be perfect, but it looks like they are trying to get it right this time. Hell as a Marvel Legend collector I fully understand how frustrating scale can be due to the fact that any panel you can find to verify a character's size, there are probably 2 panels that contradict it.

Aside being a bit harsh here (heck I ended up on "vacation" for a lot less and simply being honest to a member that has belittle many... but anyways.

"scale" is in accordance to real world.. for example if you put a jet next to a construction truck, the jet it still much larger...

While the truth is that the constructions are not very in scale to each other, but for the sake of using constructions vehicles that would be similar in size for the consideration of assembling it into a gestalt, let's estimate a 25 feet size for all vehicles. Taking in account how he transforms and how hte vehicles fold up on themselves:

Devastator would be approximately 65-70 feet tall, more if you'd use larger vehicles

The Aerialbots: Air Raid, for example is a f-15 at about 64 feet. 57 for Fireflight, etc...49 for Skydive, 46 for slightshot. Folded for gestalt configuration, take about 20 feet off.. so about 40 feet in average. Silverbolt at 202 feet, even folded up and losing maybe half, that's still a good 100 feet.

So we are looking at Superion being over 140 feet tall.

That said, Devastator at even half the size would be much more solid and dense, so could probably rip Superion in two.

Ten all of the other gestalt with one arm or leg being a plane and the other a motorcycle, simply doesn't work at all if we were to go with true life scale.

So yeah.... one has to judge and go with what they fell is the size or ratio for their figures and how they perceive them.

I've stated in another post (can't remember if this or other thread) that I would love a true line of perfectly scaled figures.. but the "regular" size (for the most common figures, which would be the cars) would have to be quite small so that all the planes, ships, etc. would be a manageable size and not end up being the size of a bathtub or a couch.

It's kinda part of why I really loved the micro line... using Gobot's Renegade ship "Thruster" is awesome and fits great (once you gut it and do separations and such).

[RNSrobot]

Aside being a bit harsh here (heck I ended up on "vacation" for a lot less and simply being honest to a member that has belittle many... but anyways.

"scale" is in accordance to real world.. for example if you put a jet next to a construction truck, the jet it still much larger...

While the truth is that the constructions are not very in scale to each other, but for the sake of using constructions vehicles that would be similar in size for the consideration of assembling it into a gestalt, let's estimate a 25 feet size for all vehicles. Taking in account how he transforms and how hte vehicles fold up on themselves:

Devastator would be approximately 65-70 feet tall, more if you'd use larger vehicles

The Aerialbots: Air Raid, for example is a f-15 at about 64 feet. 57 for Fireflight, etc...49 for Skydive, 46 for slightshot. Folded for gestalt configuration, take about 20 feet off.. so about 40 feet in average. Silverbolt at 202 feet, even folded up and losing maybe half, that's still a good 100 feet.

So we are looking at Superion being over 140 feet tall.

That said, Devastator at even half the size would be much more solid and dense, so could probably rip Superion in two.

Ten all of the other gestalt with one arm or leg being a plane and the other a motorcycle, simply doesn't work at all if we were to go with true life scale.

So yeah.... one has to judge and go with what they fell is the size or ratio for their figures and how they perceive them.

I've stated in another post (can't remember if this or other thread) that I would love a true line of perfectly scaled figures.. but the "regular" size (for the most common figures, which would be the cars) would have to be quite small so that all the planes, ships, etc. would be a manageable size and not end up being the size of a bathtub or a couch.

BROADSIDE IS THE USS FLAGG

[imfallenangel]

BROADSIDE IS THE USS FLAGG

nooo.. he's a F/A-18

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[BludChylde]

Aside being a bit harsh here (heck I ended up on "vacation" for a lot less and simply being honest to a member that has belittle many... but anyways.

"scale" is in accordance to real world.. for example if you put a jet next to a construction truck, the jet it still much larger...

While the truth is that the constructions are not very in scale to each other, but for the sake of using constructions vehicles that would be similar in size for the consideration of assembling it into a gestalt, let's estimate a 25 feet size for all vehicles. Taking in account how he transforms and how hte vehicles fold up on themselves:

Devastator would be approximately 65-70 feet tall, more if you'd use larger vehicles

The Aerialbots: Air Raid, for example is a f-15 at about 64 feet. 57 for Fireflight, etc...49 for Skydive, 46 for slightshot. Folded for gestalt configuration, take about 20 feet off.. so about 40 feet in average. Silverbolt at 202 feet, even folded up and losing maybe half, that's still a good 100 feet.

So we are looking at Superion being over 140 feet tall.

That said, Devastator at even half the size would be much more solid and dense, so could probably rip Superion in two.

Ten all of the other gestalt with one arm or leg being a plane and the other a motorcycle, simply doesn't work at all if we were to go with true life scale.

So yeah.... one has to judge and go with what they fell is the size or ratio for their figures and how they perceive them.

I've stated in another post (can't remember if this or other thread) that I would love a true line of perfectly scaled figures.. but the "regular" size (for the most common figures, which would be the cars) would have to be quite small so that all the planes, ships, etc. would be a manageable size and not end up being the size of a bathtub or a couch.

It's kinda part of why I really loved the micro line... using Gobot's Renegade ship "Thruster" is awesome and fits great (once you gut it and do separations and such).

That's why I said scale will never be perfect. Way too many variables. And in my first post I pointed out that it was absurd that Groove is a limb. He would either be too small or somehow fold himself in a manner that wouldn't be able to support a combiner. And Bruticus would be lopsided as hell. No way you would be getting equal limbs out of that.

[BludChylde]

nooo.. he's a F/A-18

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I'm not sure which comment is more win.

[79transam]

Scale is important to me. And to me to scale means to accurately reflect the sizes each character would be in relation to one another.
Scale literally means to measurably change the size of somethings rendition in a way that can be mathematically reproduced among similar objects of it's kind.
Since Transformers are capable of mass shifting, one form will suffer. Often the precedent has been to keep the scale of alt modes the same. However the way I collect is to keep the bot modes in scale.
I always thought it would be neat if Hasbro did a new run of G1 toy reissues that took Shockwave as the Scale Constant and did all the bots to scale with his bot mode.

[RNSrobot]

nooo.. he's a F/A-18

:rofl::rofl::rofl:




... so he can land on himself?

(this just became a filthy, filthy fanfic)

[imfallenangel]

That's why I said scale will never be perfect. Way too many variables. And in my first post I pointed out that it was absurd that Groove is a limb. He would either be too small or somehow fold himself in a manner that wouldn't be able to support a combiner. And Bruticus would be lopsided as hell. No way you would be getting equal limbs out of that.

And yeah, I may have been harsh, but I don't call myself Blood Child because I'm cute, cuddly and friendly. I advertise up front I'm an asshole. And if I get a vacation for my post, well, look upon the field where I grow thy fucks and see that it is barren.

The funny thing is, I'm more a of a Macross and piloted mange/anime person, aka, piloted, as Transformer's origin being the Diaclones, all the main "characters" being giant robots with cockpits for pilots.

Thanks for the Diaclone rebirth, I now have a small army of them and I love it when I find any Transformer that I can put a pilot into it...

Heck the Star Wars - Transformers crossover are absolutely on the mark for that sort of thing, for example.

But as far as scale goes.. either as per the other member is going with the robot's form, and that's fine for him, or go with whatever scale works for your angle/take... for me, I'd rather leave out that "mass shifting" thing and go with the alt form's scaled size... it would be an interesting series to see, should Hasbro/Takara even goes there. Can you imagine the jump for what "titans" would be... and a better usage of combiners... heck, a car combiner would be needed to take on Astrotrain, who would be able to carry several "small guys" within himself.

The possibilities would be off the charts.

But in the meanwhile, I do love the fortress/ starships types that I simply don't care as much about the robot form, why I really am enjoying Siege Shockwave... But I put together alt forms for many others for "giant space fortress mode", such as Perceptor, Six-shot, various Soundwaves... etc.

I'll have to take some picts...

[RNSrobot]

Y'all take this shit too seriously. Buy a toy or don't. Screeching at each other over plastic toy things. Hilariously stupid, but stupid.

GIVE ME BEDSIZE BROADSIDE OR GIVE ME DEATH

[imfallenangel]

Y'all take this shit too seriously. Buy a toy or don't. Screeching at each other over plastic toy things. Hilariously stupid, but stupid.

GIVE ME BEDSIZE BROADSIDE OR GIVE ME DEATH

*sending energon Tidal Wave to tap dance on your Broadside and crush it to it's new 4th form.. a pizza cardboard box*

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

:D:D:D:D:D:D

[ssjgoku22]

Y'all take this shit too seriously. Buy a toy or don't. Screeching at each other over plastic toy things. Hilariously stupid, but stupid.

GIVE ME BEDSIZE BROADSIDE OR GIVE ME DEATH

Honestly, I agree with you. If you like it, buy it, if you don't, move on. I suggest everyone should watch this video by Bobby Skullface. It really hits home with a lot of the decisions we make as collectors (namely money:primelaugh:).

https://youtu.be/i3_sGTHlBOU

[imfallenangel]

Honestly, I agree with you. If you like it, buy it, if you don't, move on. I suggest everyone should watch this video by Bobby Skullface. It really hits home with a lot of the decisions we make as collectors (namely money:primelaugh:).

https://youtu.be/i3_sGTHlBOU

Just watched it, and honestly, he misses the mark on many things I find.

I just got into an argument in another thread were it was clear that some members don't understand a few things at all and would rather be arrogant about their views...condescending towards anyone that doesn't see it their way.

When it comes to collecting, a person will like something, some like the movies figures, others just the G1, etc. but what we collect is what defines our style of collecting.

Trouble is, some figures have become so very expensive that many can no longer afford them...

My point was that the company making these figures are inflating the prices, and I don't sugar coat it. When you know that companies that are able to mass produce, with all the research, development, plastic and wrapping, etc, most figures are only worth a fraction that they are sold for, but companies will go with prices that people take as gospel. This applies to all manufactured goods.

Do I believe that toys are overpriced, yes, absolutely.

Do I find it right? no, it prevents those that are limited financially from getting figures that they'd love to get.

Is it right to say "don't buy if you can't afford"? Well due, of course, but it sucks that one can't afford something because a company is trying to maximize their cash flow.

For me, I technically can afford most things, but I still am picky, extremely picky for many reasons. Even if I would be a billionaire, I still wouldn't just go and get everything out there just because I could afford it.

So as I've stated before... it's absolutely fine to state that one can find something overpriced, but they still get it simply because you want to have it (and can afford it).

For this silly debate about scale...

The siege Ultra Magnus, once you have it next to the other Siege figures and most Deluxe figures or such that are within a similar scale, he does absolutely work well. He's only slightly taller but he's also much bulkier, so he feels "right" to me, as I see some figures that do end up much too tall... think of a "team" going inside the Ark to fly to another planet... having one character having to crawl on hands and knees to get in would be silly... so this guy, in human terms would be the 6'3 weightlifter guy compared to the 5'10 -6' average sized guys getting into a bus. Check it out below where I have all of the Siege (and others) together.

Transformers have managed to be all over the map, and I get figures because I like them, fit in my collection, and yes, I prefer when they "match" well together, but then, I'm the guy that has an office like this at home... try to name them all... it's a challenge.

http://www.cybertron.ca/boards/picture.php?albumid=405&pictureid=3981
http://www.cybertron.ca/boards/picture.php?albumid=405&pictureid=3980
http://www.cybertron.ca/boards/picture.php?albumid=405&pictureid=3979http://www.cybertron.ca/boards/picture.php?albumid=405&pictureid=3982

p.s. that's just part of it....

[79transam]

Elitism. The elephant in the room.
In many cases the people who relish in having the most inflated price collectibles, find a sense of joy in being able to have more than others.
And that's fine. But making long winded videos to try to skirt around that fact is a HUGE facade'.
BS makes some valid points too, but it's often what ISN'T spoken that has the most gravity.
All to each their own but when your initials are BS and your self imposed catch phrase is TRUTH.... it still smells like BS

[imfallenangel]

Elitism. The elephant in the room.
In many cases the people who relish in having the most inflated price collectibles, find a sense of joy in being able to have more than others.
And that's fine. But making long winded videos to try to skirt around that fact is a HUGE facade'.
BS makes some valid points too, but it's often what ISN'T spoken that has the most gravity.
All to each their own but when your initials are BS and your self imposed catch phrase is TRUTH.... it still smells like BS

Yup...

Many forget that it comes down these are TOYS, that are meant for parents to buy for children, even if some are targeting the adults a bit more...

How does it feel to tell an adult that "sorry you're not rich enough, don't make enough, to be able to afford children toys!".. cause I've seen some act like this on here lately with the whole price debate.

Note that a few cannot wrap their heads that it's a complete other thing when we talk about the actual collectibles, which most aren't meant to be handled... just posed and displayed, which for me, goes against what I want. If I can't "play" with it, it's not getting purchased. Heck, the Macross planes, gorgeous, but when it takes 1/2 an hour to transform, one bad move and it breaks, and at 200-300$ ++++ no way I'd go there. And when you see a few Transformers or other that are 10-20$, and have a great transformation, won't break easily, it's a fact... it can be done (decent toy) for an affordable price, but companies just want to cash in as fast and as much.

For me, the most laughable falsity/lie I see is "plastic is expensive" arguments and according to the white knights it warrants the jump of 50% or so in prices... plastic is cheap as heck people... it you can buy items that are 20x larger than transformers made of same or similar plastics for a few dollars, you're fooling yourselves. Assembly, workmanship I'd agree that it would add to the price, but not the 1$'s worth of plastic... heck, anyone that wants to argue this... I'd say; go melt your figure in a lump and go ask how much that lump of plastic is worth... Heck, I had someone argue that the Diaclone pilots were so pricy (Bandai ones are about 60-70$ for just one tiny armour suit) was because of the price of the magnets in their feet... a magnet the size of a pencil lead, when you can buy a quality of magnets for 20$ that would be enough to make several thousands of these figures.

Anyways.... Remember G1, where the full set came out and stayed out for a few years in stores, permitting most kids to get a chance to get them... now, you miss a 3-4 month window of release, and the odds of finding a figure disappears rather quickly. Sometimes they pop up at Winners/Canadian Tire or such a year later, but it's a gamble.

And that makes collectors jump a lot more than ever... So yup Siege is the very first series that has ever pulled me in like this and I didn't want to risk missing any so while hoping for a sale, I just got them as I saw them... I hate that I feel like that, I hate to feed the machine, and I won't after this series, I will get some more when they come out with something great, I'm sure, but after Siege, I'll be back to they'll have to seriously impress me for me to take my wallet out again... (unless liquidation or massive sales at that point).

[79transam]

When I first started collecting MP Scale Transformers I was able to justify higher costs because the rarity held their resale value. It held it's monetary value for it's collecting supply/demand status.
Then the reissues started coming. And it essentially devalued original runs.
So this isn't a gripe I have with other collectors being able to acquire the pieces they want, it's a gripe I have with how the companies use a supply and demand quandary to illicit high price points, and then devalue their own product by changing the supply parameters later on.
Of course that's so 2017 and here we are now in 2019 all trained like little monkeys to actaully pay 700 bucks for an Optimus Prime to replace our 300 dollar Optimus Prime. Ya.
And the phrase "Take my money now" is starting to wear off. That's so 2018 ��
Now it's the Elitism driving sales. The belief that you won't fit in with the crowd if you don't boast about spending foolish amounts of money on toys.
It's not really that cool to encourage companies to price gouge just so you can once again be that guy who manages to get that figure not everyone can get.

[Matrix_Holder]

The new stage of pricing we see reminds me of the saying
"some people have more money than brains". There is no value in what is being released for the price they charge, a chunk of plastic called optimus prime is not worth $500+ Canadian, if i do get that mold it will be a KO that is priced more reasonably.

[79transam]

My hypothesis is that some of the KO companies are just offshoots of Takara.
A way to cunningly appeal to both markets without doing perceivable damage to the "official" buyers market.
It's just my opinion, don't feel like debating it.

[RNSrobot]

The new stage of pricing we see reminds me of the saying
"some people have more money than brains". There is no value in what is being released for the price they charge, a chunk of plastic called optimus prime is not worth $500+ Canadian, if i do get that mold it will be a KO that is priced more reasonably.

Talking about elitism and what something is worth. It's what really broke me and led to reducing my collection. Looking at FunPub Thunder Mayhem and Predacus on my shelf plus the Magnaboss you could cobble together with two exclusives and the three retail toys.

12 toys representing basically 1200 fucking dollars.

Much as I'd love to own MP BW Megatron and BW Dinobot, two fucking toys representing $700 is nothing I wish to justify.

So, pick your poison. If you have the disposable income and are so inclined to buy everything, high-end shit, expensive 3p, more power. But jfc.

[imfallenangel]

My hypothesis is that some of the KO companies are just offshoots of Takara.
A way to cunningly appeal to both markets without doing perceivable damage to the "official" buyers market.
It's just my opinion, don't feel like debating it.


Wouldn't surprise me.. I had to get KOs to finish my Bruticus, and if not for the symbol not being Decepticon ones (but some sort of generic), I wouldn't be able to tell them apart from any of my other Combiner Wars figures. The plastic is the same in every way, and I cannot see anything different in the molds from the images of the "authentic ones". And right now, I look at the other combiners KO selling at 1/3 of the price of "authentic" ones and it's a no brainer.