Transformers 3 to bring Core Mythology to the fore

[tusko]

1) No more human POV.
2) No more Mcguffin's.
3) Yes more story.
4) Yes more adventure and action.

[GMfan]

Originally Posted by Robimus

That said taking a primary character the likes of Megatron and jobbing him out to The Fallen, well thats not a good use of the mentioned Mythos.

Essentially they took the villian and sissyfied him to promote a virtually unknown character over Megatron.

They made Megatron completely subservient to The Fallen, I mean he wasn't even trying to use the guy or anything.

Mmmrrrrmmmmm honestly here's 2 reasons ROTF suffered, the writing got rushed due to the writers strike (I think if that didn't happen this would have been more coherent, speed/accuracy trade off), and the fact that Orci and Kurtzman started with a third story in mind and started removing things once they felt they didn't want to do a third one.

For the Fallen the original story for him was much better and we had that presented to us in the novel and parts of the comic before it got diluted in the movie. What we didn't see in the movie is that the Fallen made contact with Megatron offering him the power of a Prime, and if Megatron got the Allspark then the power would be his, provided Megatron controlled Cybertron, and the Fallen would have everything else.

At the end of the movie, the Fallen was supposed to betray Megatron and tell him that you can't grant the power of a Prime (this is still in the video game, and you fight the Fallen as Megatron too) and Megatron turns on his "master". More or less Megatron was just "playing" the Fallen till he would get what he wanted, and never really consider him a master to him, where as in the film, you don't get that impression at all...even to the point of Megatron sighing when the Fallen is killed.

Now why was that not portrayed in the film? My guess is Orci and Kurtzman removed it because this was somehow supposed to connect to the next movie and since they wanted to pass the wheel to a new writer they didn't want to "lock him down" into writing something based off their work and he can have a fresh slate. In fact the last time we were supposed to see Megatron would have been back on the Nemesis all pissed off after the Fallen lied to him and his defeat by humans again that he starts to activate Decepticons in the stasis pods and rise his army for movie 3....but again...tossed (this was also seen in the video game and comic adaptation).

PS: for those that don't think a video game/novel/comic adaptation of the movie is a good source, remember that all of those use earlier drafts of the script before all the last minute changes and post production cuts.

Originally Posted by Robimus

It certainly had strengths and weaknesses, just like any series does. But it also formed an incredible foundation to build a franchise upon.

Took the words out of my mouth, its a good foundation but I just don't see Transformers starting and ending with it like many a fan does.

Originally Posted by Robimus

Something like Prime's "Autobots, transform and roll out" is far from bad dialog. It's iconic.

Oh trust me, Prime had some bad lines too but quite possibly my favourite quote from G1 is "One shall stand, one shall fall"

[Prowl_2009]

Originally Posted by Team Jetfire

Sorry but, I just don't buy it.

I would buy less explosions, I would buy more story, but I will never, NEVER buy that Michael Bay knows and understands Transformers lore.

Agreed 100%! This guy is a joke! I mean, he killed Jazz off for God's Sake! And who brings a character like the Fallen into a movie franchise when only diehard fans will even know who the hell he is? And don't get me started on Megan Fox.

[Malwave]

Originally Posted by Prowl_2009

Agreed 100%! This guy is a joke! I mean, he killed Jazz off for God's Sake! And who brings a character like the Fallen into a movie franchise when only diehard fans will even know who the hell he is? And don't get me started on Megan Fox.

xD Top marks for having all valid points dude! When I watched characters like Ironhide and Prowl and Starscream and yes, Prime, get slagged in the 86 movie, you actually felt like they were "dead". In these films when a character dies...it felt the same as when you kill an NPC in a shooter game.

The Jazz scene was being played up to be some sort of emotional loss and all it was was..."oh Jazz is dead....huh..." (only afterward did I get pissed xD)


Now I WILL give Bay points for bringing forth a character only the diehard fans will know about prior to it. He - in a sense - introduced him to a new generation; similar to how the IDW comics do that with really obscure Marvel universe characters (like Scournge xD)

and yes, Megan Fox....I could go on and on about her, but I'll sum it by saying this; BIG BOOBS AN AWESOME TRANSFORMERS MOVIE DON'T NOT MAKE. Ask Kiss Players. XP

Originally Posted by GMfan

Oh trust me, Prime had some bad lines too but quite possibly my favourite quote from G1 is "One shall stand, one shall fall"

Three words: Sorry, my bad. x3

[Prowl_2009]

Originally Posted by Malwave

xD Top marks for having all valid points dude! When I watched characters like Ironhide and Prowl and Starscream and yes, Prime, get slagged in the 86 movie, you actually felt like they were "dead". In these films when a character dies...it felt the same as when you kill an NPC in a shooter game.

The Jazz scene was being played up to be some sort of emotional loss and all it was was..."oh Jazz is dead....huh..." (only afterward did I get pissed xD)


Now I WILL give Bay points for bringing forth a character only the diehard fans will know about prior to it. He - in a sense - introduced him to a new generation; similar to how the IDW comics do that with really obscure Marvel universe characters (like Scournge xD)

and yes, Megan Fox....I could go on and on about her, but I'll sum it by saying this; BIG BOOBS AN AWESOME TRANSFORMERS MOVIE DON'T NOT MAKE. Ask Kiss Players. XP

Thank You, sir.

[Malwave]

Originally Posted by Prowl_2009

Thank You, sir.

yer welcome X3 xD *high five

[Shepp]

G1 is what it is. The movies are what they are.

I think what they mean by core mythos is that they will try to tie the next movie more into the W4C series.

Either that or they will be ripping off scenes from G1 and Marvel directly.

I'm hoping that by "mythos" they don't mean Unicron.

I still think the third movie will be much like what I wrote in an earlier thread, and the "mythos" will be something misunderstood by Bay or something so obscure that nobody remembers it. I'll paste my TF3 movie plot again here because its just too ridiculous.

http://www.cybertron.ca/boards/showp...7&postcount=14

[Prowl_2009]

Originally Posted by Shepp

I'm hoping that by "mythos" they don't mean Unicron.

You and me both, Unicron doesn't belong in Bay's movie-verse, but safe and sound ala 1986.

[Shepp]

Originally Posted by Prowl_2009

You and me both, Unicron doesn't belong in Bay's movie-verse, but safe and sound ala 1986.

Unicron doesn't belong in the Bay series because he's just an excuse to have a ginormous explosion in space, and add some zero-g CGI sequences.


Unicron's just been so overdeveloped as a character / force / entity / deity that he can't be used properly. Its like Superman back a couple decades ago when he could extinguish a star by clapping his hands.

I mean really, how do you write a character with such immense power and influence, and THEN make him basically immortal? And then you go even beyond that and make him the embodiment of chaos that existed before the big bang.

At least Superman had a susceptibility to any form of magic above and beyond kryptonite, plus, Superman's actually mortal and not all powerful (now that they toned down much of his abilities).


I'm not saying that Unicron should never be used again, but he needs a break after being featured so heavily in AEC, Universe, BWN, and Marvel.

edit:

Unicron's become the cliche end boss.

/edit

[tusko]

Unicron could be large planet eating energy cloud, and the TFs could join forces to defeat his heralds only to be betrayed by the bad guys and saved by the enlightened heralds!
Oh wait, that's been done.

No to core mythos. Make an original story. Make it good. No McGuffins. No Allsparks, Matrix, Shards, Ancient evils in the sand, Super energon, Evil black holes, Dimension X, or untapped powers by embracing their organic sides.