86 Movie: Why Jazz and Cliffjumper survived?

[Ironwave]

This always kinda bugged me, but why were Jazz and Cliffjumper survive, yet other S1/2 characters (such as Ironhide) were killed? The only real conclusions I can come to are:

1. The writers really liked them.
2. They had famous voice actors (which, given that Casey Kasem also voiced Bluestreak, might also bode well for him [not counting the Carbombya fiasco]).
3. They were chosen at random.

Can someone more knowledgeable perhaps shed some more light on this? I swear I recently read somewhere (unfortunately, can't remember where - I'll try and find it) that the writers were given a list of characters that they could kill off - is this list available somewhere (assuming it's real)?

Also, side note, is there a version of the script that has the (storyboarded) scenes with Mirage and Red Alert? Or were those scenes storyboard-only? (I'm not really knowledgeable on this sort of thing.)


It's good to be back.

[lars573]

Toys that were getting discontinued were slaughtered. If your toy was planned to still be sold in 1986, you lived. I think Jazz and Cliffjumper fell under that, but ended not being carried forward. The one exception is Starscream. Who was killed so Chris Latta wouldn't be around as much. Or so I've heard.

[Roadhammer]

Well, in Chris Latta's case it was because he was having pretty severe substance abuse issues, and it was causing problems for the show, which is why Starscream got written out (as well as Latta's other big characters, like Wheeljack), as I understand it. Those issues culminated in his death in '94 or so.

As for Cliffjumper and Jazz, I don't know why they of all people got saved, though it turned out to be for nought since Scatman Crothers died almost immediately after working on the film and Casey Kasem left the show in protest over that whole Carbombya fiasco, so despite surviving where so many other first season characters didn't, they were relegated to voiceless background roles for the remainder of the series. XD

[JLvatron]

Originally Posted by Ironwave

This always kinda bugged me, but why were Jazz and Cliffjumper survive, yet other S1/2 characters (such as Ironhide) were killed?

This woulda bin a great question to ask Flint Dille at TFcon last year!

I'm glad they survived.
As for why, here's a longshot theory:

The biggest impact death in the movie, at the time of writing, was Optimus Prime.
Knowing this, the writers thought ahead, and brainstormed having a statue of Optimus Prime in season 3 (which was eventually shown in the Return of OP 1)

They probably visually pictured the statue reveal of Prime in S2 episode Starscream's Brigade. And who were the Autobots present at the unveiling?

Jazz and Cliffjumper!
Thus linking them to S3 plans, requiring them surviving the movie.

[grizzly519]

I've wondered the OPs question and other characters as well for some time just never got around to asking.Why did Perceptor live?I'm not sure but didn't a conehead die off?If so why Kill off one of the new(85/86 line)seekers and let the other two live?Why did Bumblebee live when both Wheelie and Daniel were meant to fill his spot?

[Mega-Prime 316]

I found this story board of a deleted scene on youtube...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwdaLkabD7E

[Shepp]

I'm pretty sure it's because Daniel's exo-suit blasted the acid cover strut.

Story wise; saving Bumblebee, Jazz, Cliffjumper, and Spike was the conclusion to Daniel's story arc where he becomes a hero, just like his Autobot idols and his father.

Spike was a major connection to season 1 and 2, being our ambassador to the series, more or less. So he had to be somewhere, but he couldn't be the one who would rise up and become a hero, since we'd already seen that countless times in S1 and S2. And since we'd already seen someone his age be a hero among giant alien robots and certain death, another Human protagonist had to be younger. As the movie progresses, the Autobot characters protect and "coddle" Daniel less. He also becomes braver and eventually smacks a Junkion with a large I-beam. He becomes separated from his Autobot protectors, and is faced with a make-or-break situation by himself.

Daniel has the tools available to him, but can he use them in time? Will he succeed at saving his father? He's uncertain and desperate, but saving his dad finally transitions him into being a hero.

Bumblebee's there because he's bros with Spike, and someone else the audience is familiar with that can get some emotional investment. If it were, say, Grapple, it wouldn't seem as important, and most would just assume he died like so many other S1 and S2 characters. The emotional investment meant that the outcome was very important, and also uncertain to the audience. I mean, they did kill Prime, and Wheeljack, and Prowl, among others.

As for Cliffjumper, I think Sunbow planned to use Casey Kasem for much of S3 (before the whole fiasco), so for him to have lines in the movie would keep him retained and toss him some extra cash.

I suspect Jazz was a similar case, mostly because Scatman Crothers is a bigger name in general than most of the other voice actors at the time.

Whoever would be on the moon bases would be almost guaranteed some sort of lines at the beginning and the end of the movie.

[Roadhammer]

Originally Posted by grizzly519

I've wondered the OPs question and other characters as well for some time just never got around to asking.Why did Perceptor live?I'm not sure but didn't a conehead die off?If so why Kill off one of the new(85/86 line)seekers and let the other two live?Why did Bumblebee live when both Wheelie and Daniel were meant to fill his spot?

Nope, none of the Coneheads died in the film. Only the original three Seekers got bumped off. Ramjet does get a face-full of Optimus grill, but ultimately isn't thrown off Astrotrain.

Though admittedly at the end of the film they are seen flying into Unicron's mouth for some reason where he promptly eats them, but that did not stop them from showing up in the subsequent seasons, so probably just an animation error there. ^_^

[RNSrobot]

I'm pretty sure it's been talked about in interviews/commentaries that Hasbro had no clue Prime dying would impact children so much, and there were no initial plans to bring him back until the uproar.

Remember, too, that the timeframe of making the movie kept it from really having anything to do with the series. Season 2 characters like Cosmos, Powerglide, Defensor, Bruticus, etc characters don't appear because they started writing and making the film before those episodes themselves were even written, made, and aired. That's why Devastator is the only gestalt. I'm not even sure how in the loop the TV writers and movie writers were.

[Jones]

Someone earlier commented that 'this would have been a great question to ask Flint Dille at TFCON last year'. They're right, and it was asked, and he answered it.

I know this because I was the one who asked.

I asked him how they decided which characters would live/die. Whether it was determined by a long-term storyline, or if it was simply to make space for new toys.

He said, definitively, that it was all about toy sales. At the time, there was no drive to 'develop characters'. Like someone else in this thread mentioned, they also had no idea that killing Prime would have such an impact on the fans. They had no intention of bringing him back when they wrote his death. As far as they were concerned, he was just gone to make room for the new toys.

As much as we'd love to believe that the stories were intricately woven and planned out well in advance, they just weren't.

Flint was hilarious in the way he told these stories, and just flat-out said it was 'all about toys' at the time.