H1N1 Vaccine?

[devilsknight]

[sarcasim]But they keep telling us there is no side effects ! You must believe what the government tells you ! Why would they lie to you that a virtually untested, rushed vaccine is totally safe !? Surely they only tell us the truth ![/sarcasim]

I will not be guinea pig for our government !

[tilallr1]

So far not interested in getting a shot, nor is my family. Personally think the Government is more fearful of what this might become then what it is now. The virus has already mutated and is in its second strain, which apparently is worse. The H1N1 vaccine may or may not do anything against this strain. As Mark von Itzstein, director of the Institute for Glycomics in Australia's Griffith University, told Reuters: "it only takes one amino acid change in the whole protein makeup of the virus to escape the vaccine." This has already happened, so ... the vaccine is pretty much useless for future more deadly strains.

Quoted from another site, pretty interesting read:

"The CDC has pretty much guaranteed now that 1 in 100000 will end up with severe or lethal side effect from the shot. If the entire US got inoculated, thats 30,000 with sever side effects, like the GBS. Considering that 36000 die last year in the US from seasonal flu, the risk of flu to me is much lower than a severe side effect, one with no cure for. Here is another fact for you, the vaccine in Canada is manufactured by one company only and it contains the adjuvant AS03, containing Squalene, there are enough peer-reviewed studies out now that have linked this additive to the gulf war syndrome. Every soldier that got the Anthrax vaccine ended up with the Gulf war syndrome, whether deployed overseas (to the Gulf) or NOT and most of the side effects showed up after a year. So guess what, you wont see it now but down the road everything is possible. Another silly fact!...The FDA has said that an acceptable requirement for the effectiveness of a Vaccine in the event of an emergency is 3 out of 10 success rate, so all the above is acceptable risk if 3 out of 10 people inoculated actually benefit from the shot. These are not internet mambo jumbo, do some serious reading, check government site, the CDC and the FDA regulations for example. People call this fear mongering, but it seems to me that the mainstream media is the one spreading fear. Yes its tragic a 13-year old kid died, but we don't even know why yet, the autopsy results have not even come out. By the way the government of the US has over 200 million doses of the adjuvants purchased, it is also by the way not FDA Approved and the only way to get rid of it is in a state of emergency where the FDA get bypassed. Do your homework people."

[Team Jetfire]

Does everyone have their tinfoil hat on yet? Ready to stick it to the man by not taking in their flu shot propaganda?

Yeah, because the government is trying to control us through flu shots...please.

I am not a doctor. I rely on what my Doctor has told me to do, it is really why he makes the big bucks. He has gone to school for years and years to learn the information that he is presenting to me at any given time. If he suggests that I get the Shot, I am going to get the shot. I would rather listen to him then listen to the internet.

[Phalanx]

Originally Posted by devilsknight

[sarcasim]But they keep telling us there is no side effects ! You must believe what the government tells you ! Why would they lie to you that a virtually untested, rushed vaccine is totally safe !? Surely they only tell us the truth ![/sarcasim]

I will not be guinea pig for our government !

Wow that's some crazy stuff right there.

It's not untested - it just hasn't been tested much in Canada. It's undergone testing in the United States, Europe and Australia.

It's not that rushed. At least not moreso than any any other vaccine. Flu vaccines change from year to year. A new vaccine has to be created every year, H1N1 is no different. The only 'rush' here was to meet demand along with the regular flu vaccine. The methods used to create the H1N1 vaccine are more or less the same used to create any other flu vaccine. All this concern with the use of adjuvant is kind of ridiculous as well. Adjuvant is just used as an extender - basically it means that less vaccine is required for the same effect on the immune system. It's been used safely elsewhere for years. It's just new to us.

Vaccinations have been underway elsewhere for weeks if not months. Look around.

We're not guinea pigs....

Originally Posted by tilallr1

So far not interested in getting a shot, nor is my family. Personally think the Government is more fearful of what this might become then what it is now. The virus has already mutated and is in its second strain, which apparently is worse. The H1N1 vaccine may or may not do anything against this strain. As Mark von Itzstein, director of the Institute for Glycomics in Australia's Griffith University, told Reuters: "it only takes one amino acid change in the whole protein makeup of the virus to escape the vaccine." This has already happened, so ... the vaccine is pretty much useless for future more deadly strains.

Of course flu viruses mutate. This is why new vaccines are required every year. It's better to work with what you know, though.

Quoted from another site, pretty interesting read:

"The CDC has pretty much guaranteed now that 1 in 100000 will end up with severe or lethal side effect from the shot. If the entire US got inoculated, thats 30,000 with sever side effects, like the GBS. Considering that 36000 die last year in the US from seasonal flu, the risk of flu to me is much lower than a severe side effect, one with no cure for.

Source on this, please?

What they were likely referring to was the 1976 swine flu vaccine which caused Guillain–Barré syndrome in some patients. The investigation linked the GBS outbreak to batches of vaccine with bacterial contamination, not the vaccine itself.

That said, GBS has been linked to flu shots, but the odds of it happening are more like 1 in 1,000,000 (note the extra three 0s there...).

Also, as long as it's caught and treated in time, about 80% of people will make a full recovery from GBS, and only 5-10% have any serious, long term effects. (see wikipedia)

Here is another fact for you, the vaccine in Canada is manufactured by one company only and it contains the adjuvant AS03, containing Squalene, there are enough peer-reviewed studies out now that have linked this additive to the gulf war syndrome. Every soldier that got the Anthrax vaccine ended up with the Gulf war syndrome, whether deployed overseas (to the Gulf) or NOT and most of the side effects showed up after a year. So guess what, you wont see it now but down the road everything is possible.

Squalene, for those who don't know, is a natural oil derived from shark liver. Not quite so frightening when you know what it is, right? Furthermore, those studies have been pretty much debunked. The use of squalene in vaccines has been studied for years now (since at least 1997 in Europe), and no adverse effects have been found. Furthermore, squalene was never used in the vaccinations that Gulf War vets received... Oops?

But don't take my word for it, here's what the World Health Organization has to say:
http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/to...nd_answers/en/

Another silly fact!...The FDA has said that an acceptable requirement for the effectiveness of a Vaccine in the event of an emergency is 3 out of 10 success rate, so all the above is acceptable risk if 3 out of 10 people inoculated actually benefit from the shot. These are not internet mambo jumbo, do some serious reading, check government site, the CDC and the FDA regulations for example. People call this fear mongering, but it seems to me that the mainstream media is the one spreading fear. Yes its tragic a 13-year old kid died, but we don't even know why yet, the autopsy results have not even come out. By the way the government of the US has over 200 million doses of the adjuvants purchased, it is also by the way not FDA Approved and the only way to get rid of it is in a state of emergency where the FDA get bypassed. Do your homework people."

Again, source on this? Like everything else in this quote it's suspect, and likely blatantly false, misinterpreted or lacking some facts.

Sorry, but it's not an interesting read, it's fear mongering from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about and can't be bothered to look into it. I've actually done my homework.

The fear mongering works both ways, you know...

[rhinoxmaximal]

This is a very interesting thread. I'm getting both sides of the argument.

[devilsknight]

Originally Posted by Team Jetfire

Does everyone have their tinfoil hat on yet? Ready to stick it to the man by not taking in their flu shot propaganda?

Yeah, because the government is trying to control us through flu shots...please.

I am not a doctor. I rely on what my Doctor has told me to do, it is really why he makes the big bucks. He has gone to school for years and years to learn the information that he is presenting to me at any given time. If he suggests that I get the Shot, I am going to get the shot. I would rather listen to him then listen to the internet.

I listened to my doctor as well and listened to 2 other doctors that run Mommy & Me groups that the wife and my son attend.

ALL OF THEM...I REPEAT ALL OF THEM ADVISED US AGAINST THE H1N1 VACCINE !

There is no general consensus about this vaccine in the medical field, one doctor says yes...two say no...too much confusion.

Originally Posted by Phalanx

Wow that's some crazy stuff right there.

It's not untested - it just hasn't been tested much in Canada. It's undergone testing in the United States, Europe and Australia.

It's not that rushed. At least not moreso than any any other vaccine. Flu vaccines change from year to year. A new vaccine has to be created every year, H1N1 is no different. The only 'rush' here was to meet demand along with the regular flu vaccine. The methods used to create the H1N1 vaccine are more or less the same used to create any other flu vaccine. All this concern with the use of adjuvant is kind of ridiculous as well. Adjuvant is just used as an extender - basically it means that less vaccine is required for the same effect on the immune system. It's been used safely elsewhere for years. It's just new to us.

Vaccinations have been underway elsewhere for weeks if not months. Look around.

We're not guinea pigs....

You know your the second person who seems to choose words in my post without actually reading the post...does the word sarcasim escape you somehow ? I thought I was pretty clear when I attached the sarcasim tags ?! Sigh...

Would you like a gold star for your efforts of doing your homework ?! Some people have done theirs and have come their another completely different conclusion...I have done as much studying as possible with this vaccine and all it leaves me is confused or certain that it isn't a good idea to get.

Flu vaccines do change year to year but are only as up to date as last years strain. This first round of H1N1 doesn't even contain the strain currently circulating the globe. Second rounds due in December will actually contain the current strain of the vaccine. If other countries have done their research and it's proven safe then why has several countries stopped using the vaccine on pregnant women and are waiting for another type of vaccine currently available in Australia ?!

So because countries like the USA have tested it I should consider it safe to use ?! Clearly your homework needs a touch up...do the words Hydroxycut, Yasmin, Nuvaring... ring any bells ? All approved or somehow deemed safe for use in the USA by some strict guidlines...all recalled due to severe side effects even death. But...how could that happen ?! Oh yah...it wasn't fully tested, much like a certain vaccine was. Every other country has a different set of guidelines and standards, Canada's are stricter in most areas, especially in the medical and safety departments. If you did your research you'd know that...perhaps that is why baby products made for the USA aren't anywhere near deemed safe for Canadian use nor as most medications ! Just because it's safe elsewhere doesn't mean it will pass as safe in Canada and if your doing as much homework as stated, then you should know that !!!

Just because there's a pill or a needle to take that is some miracle cure...doesn't always mean it's a good idea to take it.

If you want crazy then go talk to those American conspiracy theorists who claim their injecting everyone with a microchip with that Misty vaccine...that's friggen crazy. Sarcasim even when clearly stated is nothing more than what it is...sarcasim. There's a difference, and doing homework on that helps too.

[tilallr1]

Originally Posted by devilsknight

If you want crazy then go talk to those American conspiracy theorists who claim their injecting everyone with a microchip with that Misty vaccine...that's friggen crazy.

Really!!!

LOL

[tilallr1]

Another of my biggest fears for children getting the H1N1 (2 shots), is the debate going on with Autism and the link to immunizations. If you are getting the shot, especially for your children, make sure its Thimerosal (mercury-based preservative) free. Not all Doctors or clinics carry this version of the immunization, so you may want to call to check first. Here is some history on the debate:

http://www.canada.com/health/vaccine...601/story.html

[jourdo]

I'll just chime in on the drug testing Canada/USA/blah blah thing.

There are not many countries as strict as Canada with regards to drug testing. I do believe if a drug has passed our standards, it is a relatively safe drug to use. The US will allow just about anything to pass through for approval. We however do not.

Look how long it took for Aleeve (a very good OTC antiinflammatory drug) to get here. It just recently arrived while it has been in the States for ages.

With regards to getting the shot for my family... I think we have decided to go for it (assuming the shortage isn't an issue) based solely on the fact that my son has asthma (which can get pretty bad when he has a cold). I'm still not personally sold on it, but for my kids I will do it.

[Phalanx]

Originally Posted by devilsknight

...
You know your the second person who seems to choose words in my post without actually reading the post...does the word sarcasim escape you somehow ? I thought I was pretty clear when I attached the sarcasim tags ?! Sigh...

Apologies for misinterpreting, then. If I'm the second person to do it, though, maybe the problem is with the way they were used? You were using sarcasm tags around exaggerated support for getting the shot, so it could be interpreted that you held opinions contrary to what you were expressing... which is what I believed I addressed, no?

Also, the guinea pig comment was outside of the sarcasm tags...

Anyway...

Would you like a gold star for your efforts of doing your homework ?! Some people have done theirs and have come their another completely different conclusion...I have done as much studying as possible with this vaccine and all it leaves me is confused or certain that it isn't a good idea to get.

Yeah, you'll notice the homework comment was not in response to you, but the following post where the person being quoted used the term 'homework' when they clearly hadn't done theirs... It wasn't a matter of being boastful. As for being unsure... consider the sources. I'll take the World Health Organization over someone posting statics from debunked studies.

Flu vaccines do change year to year but are only as up to date as last years strain. This first round of H1N1 doesn't even contain the strain currently circulating the globe. Second rounds due in December will actually contain the current strain of the vaccine.

Can I get a source on that, please? Why not take the opportunity to minimize its spread, and its chance to further mutate?

If other countries have done their research and it's proven safe then why has several countries stopped using the vaccine on pregnant women and are waiting for another type of vaccine currently available in Australia ?!

The vaccine is safe, the adjuvanted version just hasn't been approved yet (approval is coming in a couple of weeks, apparently). It's not a matter of it being unsafe. The batch from Austrialia is vaccine without adjuvant as a way of immunizing pregnant women until the adjuvanted version can be approved, that's all. Adjuvanted vaccines have been used for years in Europe and the United States.

Who has advised that pregnant women not get the shot?

Further reading:
http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/...omen-sogc.html

So because countries like the USA have tested it I should consider it safe to use ?! Clearly your homework needs a touch up...do the words Hydroxycut, Yasmin, Nuvaring... ring any bells ? All approved or somehow deemed safe for use in the USA by some strict guidlines...all recalled due to severe side effects even death. But...how could that happen ?! Oh yah...it wasn't fully tested, much like a certain vaccine was.

None of which are vaccines... apples and oranges. The H1N1 vaccine is produced the same way that other vaccines are produced. These are tried and true methods and have been used for decades.

Just because there's a pill or a needle to take that is some miracle cure...doesn't always mean it's a good idea to take it.

And no one is saying this is some sort of miracle cure. This is a way to prevent the spread of an illness which could affect you or those you come in contact with. I don't want to be responsible for someone else getting sick, either. You can have the illness well before you start to show symptoms of it.

If you want crazy then go talk to those American conspiracy theorists who claim their injecting everyone with a microchip with that Misty vaccine...that's friggen crazy. Sarcasim even when clearly stated is nothing more than what it is...sarcasim. There's a difference, and doing homework on that helps too.

See above.