Looking at 3rd Parties, what haven't Has/Tak caught on?

[joshimus]

Originally Posted by Echotransformer

Hmph, these threads are always opinionated and nasty...it really wasn't that bad of a question...

It sounds opinionated and nasty but I'm not taking it that way.
My question was merely a "what if?". It's not impossible for Hasbro nor Takara to make more 3rd party inspired designs at cheaper the price tag. FOC Bruticus sure could have been made better, but changing up the gimmick of any limb can be any limb (except Onslaught) affected the figure as a whole, imo anyway. What they could have done to improve the overall look and design as well as aesthetics would have been to keep them simple instead of focusing on "how much more playability can we throw in" for the kids.
You already have 5 bots that transform and connect into a larger bot. Why do you need interchangeable limbs when you can make Bruticus's overall look more game accurate?!
Politics, time, pressure, whatever the case may be, sometimes I wonder about that. Sometimes less is more.
Keep in mind, that doesn't mean thousands of kids around the world are gonna look at FOC Bruticus the way I do, of what could have been.

[Nullray]

Originally Posted by joshimus

. What they could have done to improve the overall look and design as well as aesthetics would have been to keep them simple instead of focusing on "how much more playability can we throw in" for the kids.
You already have 5 bots that transform and connect into a larger bot. Why do you need interchangeable limbs when you can make Bruticus's overall look more game accurate?!

I don't thing Hasbro is overall concerned with the combine gestalt feature as the driving factor when it comes to this set. Parents purchasing the product in general are not aware of the combining features of the set. Or if they do then they react in a manner of "that's kinda neat". So to purchase individual stand alone pieces out of Walmart or TRU parents would have to shell out on the average $18/figure x 5 plus tax. That is the $100+ range for a complete set. If you do not hold the interest of the child for more than 10 seconds these days why would they go back and get the next piece and so on. I think it was wise of Hasbro to create an engaging piece to keep kids entertained. Well thats IMO anyways. I'd say maybe some 3rd party will come up with some fantastic add-on but thats my adult collector coming through and parents and kids don't know who or what 3rd party are for the most part.

[Bruticus82]

Originally Posted by Nullray

I don't thing Hasbro is overall concerned with the combine gestalt feature as the driving factor when it comes to this set. Parents purchasing the product in general are not aware of the combining features of the set. Or if they do then they react in a manner of "that's kinda neat". So to purchase individual stand alone pieces out of Walmart or TRU parents would have to shell out on the average $18/figure x 5 plus tax. That is the $100+ range for a complete set. If you do not hold the interest of the child for more than 10 seconds these days why would they go back and get the next piece and so on. I think it was wise of Hasbro to create an engaging piece to keep kids entertained. Well thats IMO anyways. I'd say maybe some 3rd party will come up with some fantastic add-on but thats my adult collector coming through and parents and kids don't know who or what 3rd party are for the most part.

I think they should have played up the combining feature more in advertising, packaging, etc. Maybe even had a gift set like the good old days (for Christmas time, when parents would have totally spent the money). I mean, it's more profitable to convince a kid he needs all five to "build giant robot" than it is to just let the parents buy one or two...

[Goaliebot]

I think we've been pretty civil in here.

While I too would love Hasbro to focus on design and transformation over gimmicks, I'd actually worry such a line would be a shelf warming failure. If after us collectors bought the couple thousand we'd need, would kids and parents go for the rest?

[Jove]

I will try to say this very politely: I think that many of you have missed the point of the original post.

Unless I am mistaken, the idea was this:

"Robots that transform into cars (and planes etc.) COULD be the ONLY gimmick required to sell transformer to kids. (and to us as well)"

The argument was sadly muddied when the words "3rd party" and "collector" were used.

When I was a kid, I was exited about the whole idea about "robots in disguise", as I am sure the kids who get their first transformers now are as well. Hasbro has lost the focus on the best part of the toy. LEDs and automorph and such take time (and money) to design, and that takes time and money away from making the transformation interesting, reducing kibble and making toys that are awesome. This has the added - selfish- benefit of making toys that we would also be more interested in.

The OP (and I) think that cool cars that transform into robots with great articulation would likely sell just as well as (or better than) toys with a neat gimmick that require skimping on the other design elements.

There was an unfortunate reference to 3rd party developers, because they are producing excellent products for us fans. I think that the idea was that Hasbro could learn a small lesson from the 3rd party guys "transforming robots ARE a gimmick, no other gimmicks are required".

[Nullray]

Originally Posted by Jove

I will try to say this very politely: I think that many of you have missed the point of the original post.

Unless I am mistaken, the idea was this:

"Robots that transform into cars (and planes etc.) COULD be the ONLY gimmick required to sell transformer to kids. (and to us as well)"

The argument was sadly muddied when the words "3rd party" and "collector" were used.

There was an unfortunate reference to 3rd party developers, because they are producing excellent products for us fans. I think that the idea was that Hasbro could learn a small lesson from the 3rd party guys "transforming robots ARE a gimmick, no other gimmicks are required".

The thing is 3rd party was developed from the gimmick features or "add-ons" as Hasbro would call it MechTech on their last release. G1 reissued many things with TargetMaster or Headmasters to add a gimmick to old characters with great success. Takara has a great gimmick currently with AM mini-cons that don't make it to the North American markets unless purchased through online sources or from conventions through collectors. So IMO gimmicks are apart of the 3rd party and collectors markets and thats a great thing. I've seen the reaction of kids to Shadow Commander decked out with PE accessories or Crazy Devy Predaking with the add-on gimmicks. The add-on gimmicks feature(s) can actually create a new fresh idea on an old concept. Kids reacting to Crazy Devy enhanced Predaking or Shadow Commander was that of amazement. Totally a cool reaction. Parents too..
Maybe they should focus more on the core figure but it takes on average about 2 years to develop a new release so that is alot of focused attention. Gimmicks sometimes give us repaints of old molds to feed the frenzy while new things are being developed. Keep em coming.

[joshimus]

Yes, that's more so where I was going with it, albeit it is from my own perspective on how I view toys. For myself, being able to get a dynamic pose out of a figure is far greater than having lights, sounds, autotransform or even projectiles. Whether or not those would sell better than what we have now, I have no idea.
Going on the point of weapons, let's talk Mechtech. Sure DOTM Prime and Megatrons guns had a sort of "lock" feature that on mine didn't hold so well, but what about deluxe weapons? Pressing a button and having a weapon auto-transform is fine and all, but if you have to hold the button down to keep it that way, that's just annoying. Less is more. Take out the springs and make it stay transformed. That would have made Mechtech weapons better. Again, all in my opinion. What kids think and what works best for Hasbro is for them to decide.
I just think sometimes the gimmicks , like sounds and lights, can affect a potentially great figure.

p.s. this is strictly through my selfish eyes for better figures...especially as of late. (looking at you Air Arachnid)

[Team Jetfire]

It's becoming painfully clear that Hasbro is more concerned about the opinion of focus groups and so called market trends that inform their decision to make and sell toys. It seams that these trends include building toys (Lego) and gaming style toys (Pokemon and bakugan) while forgetting why kids liked transformers in the first place: cool toys that had great personalities presented is fun story.

[Stapler]

It's really not fair to praise third party designers and wag your finger at Hasbro. Third parties are free of everything that Hasbro has to deal with as a company. They have budgets, deadlines, safety concerns, unions, marketing, licensing, share holders, the economy and lots of competition for their customers (kids) attention and money to look out for. And at the end of the day, they are in it to make money, not to break even.

Third parties can take all the time they need to design a figure and not worry about those things. They are also catering to a niche market and able to sell their items at a premium to compensate.

Hasbro caters to kids because that's where the money is. What is a parent going to be more likely to buy their kid, a $15.00 deluxe or a $30.00 deluxe that didn't cut back due to rising costs of resources? And it's not like Hasbro ignores its adult collector fans. They throw us a bone now and then by taking a risk on MP figures and reissues.

The differences between Hasbro's offerings and third party offerings is all a matter of them having different rules (or lack there of) to follow. Third parties make amazing things to be sure, but so does Hasbro/Takara. It's easy to feel jaded as a collector these days, but we need to remember to stop, take a breath, look at why things are the way they are and appreciate what we have.

[Shockwave 75]

Originally Posted by Super_Megatron

Collectors are a very small percentage of their market. They sell toys for children.

While this is true, I don't think we're that small of a percentage anymore. And I know there are quite a few out there who agree with me, many of whom are on certain podcasts.

Where Hasbro would have us believe the general public (GP)/collectors sales ratio is 90/10, I think it's more like 70/30, if not 60/40. Just look at how things sell. If we collectors were so insignificant, why do all the "hot" figures sell out first and consistently? Some will say "because those figures are usually short packed", and that's valid, but if the GP buys so many more figures than us, why are we awash in a sea of Bumblebees? If the GP is likely to buy up the "popular" characters first, why aren't all the Bee's gone too, if he's so "popular"? The uneven case ratio's should be perfect if the ratio's are as Hasbro would lead us to believe.

Originally Posted by Rev

I agree with the spirit of the OP: the transformation should be the gimmick. Really do that well and forget about other stuff. There are thousands of 25+ year old toys still around that sold like hotcakes with no gimmick other than transformation. Granted, it was another time, but in the end it is the transformation that makes it a Transformer.

As others have pointed out, gimmicks have always been part of the brand. But that said, I distinctly remember Hasbro saying that RID sold phenomenally, and that was a toy line with little to no gimmicks. Just great figures that transformed and a fun show.

Originally Posted by joshimus

Well, that's just it. 3rd parties may not be hurting Hasbro's numbers at the end of the year. I don't know, not my business. I just think in certain circumstances, take ironhide for example, Has/Tak's universe version doesn't look as good as, was it Igears?
My point was merely that Hasbro COULD make better more accurate figures, but don't. I won't knock the G1 inspired lines Hasbro has released, but in some cases I don't see why they did what they did on certain figures.
Either way, they need to make what is in their best interest for selling toys.

Originally Posted by Goaliebot

3rd party do amazing things, but how many $600 combiners can we support? This year we've got 3rd party Superion, Predaking, and Menasor. That's $1800. Add Perseus for $2400. Then buy the 3rd party not-headmasters, jumpstarters, minibots, Hexatron, etc, this is easily a $5000 year on "must-buy" 3rd party alone. Add in Takara MP and big reissues, and collectors are already looking at $7000 this year on 3rd party + Tak MP/reissues alone, without touching Prime, Kreo, Generations, BH, etc.

I dont think Hasbro can risk catering to collectors that have over $7000 already earmarked for non-Hasbro TFs this year alone.

Hasbro could do all the same things that the 3rd party companies are doing, but why would they? It would seem like they feel that the 3rd party companies are giving us what we want without effecting their (Hasbro's) bottom line.

And I don't think there are very many collector's out there who are dropping $7000 on all those figures. People who are buying the not-Aerialbots are likely not buying the not-Stunticons and not-Predacons, and vice/versa.

Originally Posted by Bruticus82

I think they should have played up the combining feature more in advertising, packaging, etc. Maybe even had a gift set like the good old days (for Christmas time, when parents would have totally spent the money). I mean, it's more profitable to convince a kid he needs all five to "build giant robot" than it is to just let the parents buy one or two...

I agree with this. Back in the day, isn't that what made us want to buy all the members of all the various combiner teams? Objectively they are all pretty shitty toys, but they combined into one giant robot!

What I think Hasbro and Takara should do is quietly funnel some money to select 3rd party companies to get their costs down so they can give we collector's the figures that we are clamoring for, but that won't sell well on the open market. Then maybe they can, again, quietly, tap some of the 3rd party designers to help design some of the mass market figures.