Pointing Fingers...Michael Bay kicked my dog!

[onecoin]

The treatment was written in the two weeks before the strike, and submitted just in time. Michael Bay expanded the treatment so development could begin. The full script was written afterwards, in about 4 months. Because of the "expansion" Bay had done to treatment, the writers were "handcuffed" by certain concepts because so much money had be used in preproduction development of "expanded" ideas.

http://www.firstshowing.net/2009/01/...ransformers-2/

http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option...2&article=5481

[Mighty_Galvatron]

Originally Posted by Team Jetfire

Sure he has a lot of creative control, but these movies are the combined effort of the Writers (Kurtzman & Orci), the producers (Ian Bryce, Tom DeSanto, Lorenzo di Bonaventura, Don Murphy and Steven Spielberg; all of combined to have one hell of a long movie resume), the Studio: Paramount, and finally the Big H themselves. With all these people involved in this movie, it really makes me wonder how Michael Bay takes all the heat for this ‘terrible’ movie.

Well exactly. If a lot of the negative comments on the movie stem from the plot and dialogue then it is pretty much 100% the fault of the writers and not Michael Bay. They wrote the movie. That to me is quite clear...Now I am not aware of any information regarding Bay himself writing it during the writer's strike - so until then I blame the writers.

I do blame Bay for the crude humor though. To me those seem like clear directorial choices.

Originally Posted by Team Jetfire

If you hated this movie, it is fine, it really is, but make sure that your hate is directed to the right place.

...OR ELSE!!! LOL (jk man)

Originally Posted by Pascal

[color=Red]That's only because it's the cool thing to do in the fandom right now, just like it's cool to bash the Supreme Devastator toy, the twins in the movie, dog/bot humping, the price increase of toys, etc. You're not a real fan if you don't bitch about that stuff at least 10 times a day for the next 6 months or so.

Again with Devastator...You don't need to stick up for him you know, I think he can take care of himself.

...Its not cool to bash the Supreme Devastator toy, rather, its just to bash the Supreme Devastator toy IMO.

Peace man.

Originally Posted by Goaliebot

Meh - I've just completely stopped reading anything and everything on here and TFW about the movies. I loved 'em and I'm happy with that. I'd LOVE to find some kind of fan site for the movieverse where I could discuss the movies and related toys, etc without all the fighting and hating and arguing and mudslinging... but I don't know of any such movieverse fansite.

The world is an unforgiving place. You might find such a message board in the wonderful land of Oz though...provided they have internet capabilities these days of course.

Originally Posted by Whisky Tango Foxtrot

Of course, the director of any movie does bear most of the responsibility for the quality of said movie...

False.

Originally Posted by Whisky Tango Foxtrot

Beast Wars had an actual coherent plot and well written fleshed out characters.

Yes. To date no other TF series or Movie was as well written as BW...or even BM (quiet everyone!) for that matter. It remains a benchmark.

I would say that this is in my opinion, but I think its more like a fact in this case.

Originally Posted by Pascal

Easy when you have 4 ENTIRE SEASONS (how many episodes in total?) to do so.

Is it easy sir? What do you say about the 4 Seasons that G1 had? Or the however many seasons that the Armada Trilogy had?

[Sun Swipe Prime]

Originally Posted by Team Jetfire

Luckily, their gamble paid off and net them millions, but you can't blame Bay for being who he is.

And I always wonder how directors deal with plot holes after the fact... Movies really should have a Plot Hole checker to makes sure that the movie actually makes sense before it is released.

Yeah, I think that's what they did, gamble. They probably knew what the plot holes were and just hoped the audience could/would look past it. I'm sure tight time constraints played a part in things. And yeah, can't blame him for being who he is, but the thing that frustrates me a little is that I know he's capable of better in his films. He's done it with movies like The Rock and Bad boys.

As far as I know, the way they deal with problems in films after principle photography is done is to do pick-ups, refilm or film new scenes to fix things.

Originally Posted by Pascal

Professional script writers shouldn't have to be taken by the hand to tell them how to do their job properly in the first place. If there are plot holes, the writers should be able to see it before even submitting the script.

Picking up your own mistakes is a tricky thing, even if you're professional. That's why they do multiple drafts for scripts, books, even speeches. That's why books have editors and proofreaders, to pick up on things the writers miss. Finding plot holes can be like finding your own spelling errors and is not solely the job of the script writer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what most people are unpset about when someone bashes Bay is the mean spirtied comments that are, in essence, only saying "Bay Sucks" and that's it, no reason, no intellegence behind them. It like a gang of boys picking on the little guy at school. For me, if anyone has a reasonably thought out opinion, I'd like hear it whether I agree with it or not. For me, I'm just not interested in hearing, this suck or that suck just because.

Lastly, here's were I got the incomplete script info from

http://www.firstshowing.net/2009/01/...ransformers-2/

[Pascal]

Originally Posted by Mighty Galvatron

Is it easy sir? What do you say about the 4 Seasons that G1 had? Or the however many seasons that the Armada Trilogy had?

Character development was there aplenty in G1 and the A-E-C trilogy. Plot and character development are two completely different things. My point is, you guys don't realize the movies only had a couple hours to put on character development AND action while the tv series had countless episodes to do so. Separately, the episodes don't tell a lot, only the whole does and that's what you remember from it. Therefore the comparison is unfair.

[Mighty_Galvatron]

Originally Posted by Pascal

Character development was there aplenty in G1 and the A-E-C trilogy. Plot and character development are two completely different things. My point is, you guys don't realize the movies only had a couple hours to put on character development AND action while the tv series had countless episodes to do so. Separately, the episodes don't tell a lot, only the whole does and that's what you remember from it. Therefore the comparison is unfair.

Very sorry man, I drastically miss-interpreted your original post. You are 100% right on there of course.

I have not seen the AEC Trilogy so I cannot comment on character development. I do remember some character development in G1, but really there was not that much.

[Robimus]

SunSwipePrime posted:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what most people are unpset about when someone bashes Bay is the mean spirtied comments that are, in essence, only saying "Bay Sucks" and that's it, no reason, no intellegence behind them. It like a gang of boys picking on the little guy at school. For me, if anyone has a reasonably thought out opinion, I'd like hear it whether I agree with it or not. For me, I'm just not interested in hearing, this suck or that suck just because.

I completely agree

[OneShallFall]

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!