Outrun Collectibles - No longer in business

[Solauren]

Originally Posted by quickkick

Googled his name his business name is registered did he pocket the taxes still most likely. Dumb thing is his home address is also listed man he probably got evicted from his apartment

If he tried to pocket the sales tax, when the CRA catches up to him, he'll be surprised.


Sales Taxes are referred to as 'Trust'. Meaning when the government comes to collect them, they trump all other debts. Trust debts even trump mortgages on your house.


(Officially I'm a Collection Officers for the CRA. In reality, haven't done any direct collections in about 6 years now).

[Solauren]

Some more advice based on my experiences from work, as well as dealing personally with companies that went under in some way (legitimately not their fault or scams, or other)
(Work history - Some Retail, then 8 years or so with the Ontario Ministry of Finance/Revenue, then 12+ now with the CRA. I'd have to double check dates, but I was working at the MOF/R for about 3 months when 9/11 happened, and started work with the CRA 6 months after the PST/GST Harmonization in Ontario)

Your money is gone, and there is not much you can do about it.

As someone mentioned earlier, you might be able to open a dispute based on pre-order/expected delivery date. That is on a credit card by credit card basis.




Now, there are three legal options open right now...
Outrun's owner declares personal bankruptcy, you find out and attempt to make a claim.

Outrun's owner declares corporate bankruptcy, you find out and attempt to make a claim.
People go after Outruns owner in court to attempt to prove fraud or similar.



Bankruptcy -

There are two paths of bankruptcy that could be taken here. Corporate and Personal.

If the owner of Outrun Collectibles declares Personal bankrupcty, here is what will happen -

His total asset value will be calculated, less a things that are protected under the law (a house is protected from creditors and bankruptcy claimants, but not from mortgage holders)
Things that are protected include personal property.

Everyone will have a period to file a bankruptcy claim. The trustee for the bankruptcy will be required to notify creditors in some way. Most post an add in the paper, or on their website.
It's rare for a personal bankruptcy for smaller creditors to be contacted directly.

Every claim that will be submitted will be cataloged, totaled, and some might be given priority (i.e Government deemed trust claims for sales tax and employee income tax deductions)
Unless he has a lot of liquid cash or similiar on hand, you'll get a percentage of the paid out, based on what percentage of the claim you are, up to the full value of your claim if there is sufficient funds.


Example Scenario -

So, let's say he's got $10,000 in cash for this after asset sales. Most of the claims are for $800, but there are 100 of them. That's $80,000. But, there is also a $120,000 claim from his distributor.


The distrubtor makes up more then half the claim, and might have additional legal factors on their side. Assuming they don't, they'll get about $6000 of that $10G. Leaving $4000 to be divided up amongst a hundred claims.


Here's your $40 refund on your $800 purchase.



Realitically, there will be no money in the estate, however. Here is your $0 on your claim.




It's similar for a Corporate bankruptcy, but that's based on Corporate funds and assets. Those are usually always negative in a bankruptcy. (All creditors, no assets of value)


Now, here is the kicker -
Any assets had at the time of bankruptcy, even if your entire preorder was sitting in a box with your name on it ready to go, become part of the bankruptcy, and are sold off, usually dirt cheap, to put into the funds to pay out the creditors.
You have no claim on them.

If you want to pursue other legal proceedings against Outrun, the best bet might be to go after him an attempt to prove Fraud. It would have to be a class action lawsuit situation.


Good luck with that. Fraud has to be shown to be intentional, not from a lack of skill, bad luck, medical problems and the like.


All he'd need is a little documentation showing he was having medical problems that caused these issues to start, and he was unable to bring them back under control, and you just wasted your time and money taking him to court.




Your money is gone.
Your not getting your toys.


That's the risk you take with online ordering from local retailers.

[pringj]

Thankfully I had less than $50 in goods preordered with outrun collectibles when this happened and I really feel for the people that had hundreds of dollars in preorders, but I honestly don?t think any of this was done on purpose. Unlike other companies, like NMC toys, who put no effort in communicating with customers about delays etc. other than to ream out those people with legitimate questions, outrun collectibles seems to have made sincere efforts to communicate with customers. I really hope the nasty vitriol directed towards these people will stop.

[wervenom]

Originally Posted by pringj

Thankfully I had less than $50 in goods preordered with outrun collectibles when this happened and I really feel for the people that had hundreds of dollars in preorders, but I honestly don?t think any of this was done on purpose. Unlike other companies, like NMC toys, who put no effort in communicating with customers about delays etc. other than to ream out those people with legitimate questions, outrun collectibles seems to have made sincere efforts to communicate with customers. I really hope the nasty vitriol directed towards these people will stop.

Sincere efforts to say he would ship items in stock to those he made the offer too? Sincere efforts to refund the money he said he was going to? Sincere efforts are just like his good intentions. They ain't worth shit!

[steamwhistle]

Originally Posted by wervenom

Sincere efforts to say he would ship items in stock to those he made the offer too? Sincere efforts to refund the money he said he was going to? Sincere efforts are just like his good intentions. They ain't worth shit!

This.

It would be interesting to know when he started to obtain professional (legal, financial, and/or others) advice about his situation.

Was he told not to continue to fulfill orders? When? At what point?

"A good shot is worth more than a good intention," as Warpath would say.

We can only wonder about what point he stopped trying for those with preorders.

To me, a rolled ankle is not an excuse. He should have someone he could trust minimally and help with the physical aspects of completing available orders. He should have been sending as much as he could out, if he was really tying to make things right. Even if he could only make 25% of the people 60% happy.

I don't think I've heard of anyone receiving anything since August. When was the last time someone here received a shipment from Outrun?

I like giving the benefit of the doubt, and I don't think he went into business planning this, but his handling of the demise of his store is very suspect. He could have done better.

[VicRav]

Originally Posted by steamwhistle

I don't think I've heard of anyone receiving anything since August. When was the last time someone here received a shipment from Outrun?

This is where some his story starts to fall apart. Back around August his wife was supposedly helping fulfill orders while he was hurt. Of course there hasn't been much in any of the communities talking about this that indicate anybody received orders. For months there has been talk of still shipping orders if stock was available or more recently if people switched to available stock items as offered. At this point it all seems like a lot of gaslighting.

[delrue]

He did send me a refund for an item back in September personally through an e-transfer because I was out of the PayPal period so he wasn't entirely checked out. This was before he announced the store closure.

[Sun Swipe Prime]

Originally Posted by steamwhistle

This.
I like giving the benefit of the doubt, and I don't think he went into business planning this, but his handling of the demise of his store is very suspect. He could have done better.

Everyone goes in with good intentions, but when the pressure is on, that's when true character is revealed.

Everyone would like to think that they'd give up their seat in a lifeboat to someone else like a kid, but when shit gets real, how many would truly follow through? A lot would go everyone for themselves.

[VicRav]

Originally Posted by Sun Swipe Prime

Everyone goes in with good intentions, but when the pressure is on, that's when true character is revealed.

Everyone would like to think that they'd give up their seat in a lifeboat to someone else like a kid, but when shit gets real, how many would truly follow through? A lot would go everyone for themselves.

Going down the bankruptcy road might have left him little choice in how the business could/should deal with customers. As you say there could have been a choice in the bankruptcy process where maintaining assets for creditors might have been more beneficial to himself.

[steamwhistle]

Originally Posted by VicRav

Going down the bankruptcy road might have left him little choice in how the business could/should deal with customers. As you say there could have been a choice in the bankruptcy process where maintaining assets for creditors might have been more beneficial to himself.

Which is why I would wonder when he started getting such legal/financial advice -- if he was using stories, suggesting compensatory offers, and even having special sales online for supposed in-stock items, after such legal/financial consultation.

Fortunately for me, I hadn't yet ventured to place any orders though I was considering it to support the site sponsors.

If I had lost 2+ weeks of pay because of Outrun's shortcomings, I'd be upset and would want to know how this person is living his life after this fiasco. Did he legitimately file for bankruptcy? What type? What are his living conditions now? Is he living worse, the same, or better than he was a year ago? How hard did he actually try to make things right?

So many questions which will likely go unanswered.

People are justifiably upset.