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Old 11-22-2011, 02:30 PM   #41
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Re: TFs getting too hard to transform?

nope, the g1s i had/have all took under two minutes to transform, and most of that was finding the guns in the pile of chrome, lol, the new ones take at least 5 mins the first time,
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:59 PM   #42
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Re: TFs getting too hard to transform?

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Originally Posted by asanjuan62 View Post
The one thing that I miss about about the G1 days is that I made the transforming sound effects while doing the transformation. I SO can not do that anymore. Ahh the good old days...
Sure you can, chu cheech cheech! Except now you have to do it for a half an hour or so or do what I did and get your computer to speak it for you.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:27 PM   #43
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Re: TFs getting too hard to transform?

I've always felt that transformers should be used as a form of aptitude test. Either you can or you can't and such should decide your lot in life.

Yes in the developmental stages you can learn how to do it via repetition but so can a parrot in a similar fashion of learning how to speak.

Growing up I was always the kid who had a natural knack for transformers and all their complexities yet others around me would constantly fail and falter in their attempts. Even today as an adult when my friends get something new in they'll ask me to either transform it for them or have me do a part they can't figure out.

Personally I love the complexities of the transformations and hate how we have to dumb them down because our children are getting stupider (hence my original point) I find it a satisfying challenge to remember every single transformation of each figure in my collection. One could say it's a form of brain training in a society that's constantly trying to dumb us down.
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:17 PM   #44
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Re: TFs getting too hard to transform?

I think what has to be kept in mind (from what I've been told on how this goes) is that the engineers are given a picture of the bot, a picture of the alt mode and that's about it. I don't think they try to make the transformations as complex as possible, but trying to figure out how this 'turns' into 'that' while making it show accurate and structurally sound is a big task. I think they try to streamline the process and keep the parts count down as much as they can and it doesn't help they have little to no input on the designs themselves. Look at movie Prime for example: LINK. Taking that and turning it into toy form, everyone thought was impossible, but they did it with the ROTF Prime and further refined and simplified it with the HFTD Voyager Prime. I think it's impossible to expect simpler G1 level transformation while keeping show accuracy with these movie designs. When you guys bought the ROTF Leader Prime and saw the movies, you should have known what you were getting yourselves into. If you want simpler try DOTM Voyager Prime and look how well that turned out. It is what it is with the movie design.
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:13 PM   #45
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Re: TFs getting too hard to transform?

Well to be honest, I don't have 1st hand experience being a child in modern days because well... I'm 24. However, I've been around enough toys & enough children to notice the differences between what we've got now & what we had back in the day, and I'm pretty sure that's how most everyone else is taking this topic.
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:16 PM   #46
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Re: TFs getting too hard to transform?

i wouldn't say harder, just more steps and new methods. to the newer generation it is just what it is, its all they know
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:24 PM   #47
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Re: TFs getting too hard to transform?

I actually enjoy the difficulty of the much recent figures, I have not had enough experiance with different Transformers to know how much they have changed but know it has gotten a lot harder or complex. For example, the WFC Optimus Prime people found very hard to transform and got frustrated over it and just left him in whatever mode they where closer to mid-transformation that include people who are young or old, I think because I'm just a teen who wants a challenge out of it.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:25 PM   #48
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Re: TFs getting too hard to transform?

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Originally Posted by Sideslap View Post

Personally I love the complexities of the transformations and hate how we have to dumb them down because our children are getting stupider (hence my original point) I find it a satisfying challenge to remember every single transformation of each figure in my collection. One could say it's a form of brain training in a society that's constantly trying to dumb us down.
I agree with this, which is why I don't have an issue with the complexity of transformation. I do have an issue of aiming products at inappropriate markets, which isn't good for anyone.

Battle Ops Bee and Ultimate Prime. I like them. But they are not appropriate for young kids, and I don't see anyone (Hasbro, retailers, employees) doing anything to really educate consumers. They simply point parents at the biggest, most expensive toys and let them decide. That would be fine it it were an informed decision, but many times it's not.

This is a bad thing because no one ends up happy. A kid who might end up liking Transformers (and joining us here one day) could instead be horribly turned off because the toy is too complicated and the kid literally can't transform it. Neither can the parents.

This is not a failure of the toy. But parents aren't going to magically know better without education. The tiny difficulty indicator is not enough. Many parents will be making the decision of whether or not to get the toy right there in the store based on what they see and how overwhelmed they are. Many are not going to look past finding the largest Bee and/or Prime, or know that they even should take a second look.

I ran into parents yesterday at TRU. They wanted a Leader sized Prime. The store employee said they didn't have any, but would get some in later this week (yeah, right). So instead they picked up a Leader Bee. They didn't even look at complexity. I ended up helping them out.

I'd say these were reasonably informed people -- they were familiar with TFs and understood what they wanted. But there were multiple failures here. They didn't know coming into the store what was available. They got no help from the store employee, who was clueless. They got no help from the store, which had product all over the place. You can bet that if they did magically find a Leader Prime, the last thing they would do is put it back because of a dinky difficulty indicator.

Lego (for instance) makes it relatively obvious by product line, packaging, and well-marked age indicators. The Technic line is for serious builders. Hasbro has different Transformer lines too, but once you get out of the kiddy league, it's all one monolithic thing, even though the toys themselves range from easy to frickin' insanely complicated.

We are super-informed customers, but we have to remember that most people in the store would not understand that size is not the only difference between Leader Sentinel Prime and Voyager Sentinel Prime, and just because it's big and flashy doesn't mean it's a better idea for every kid.

Again, I don't think it's a bad idea to play up the difficulty with more adult packaging, large stickers that proclaim it as challenging, or other clues that the toy may not be suitable for everyone, but is a great thing for the right audience. Since Hasbro does not do a great job with commercials, they have to educate at point of sale, and they need to be doing a better job of this. It's better in the long run because you end up with more satisfied customers, and customers who come back for more instead of customers who pass you by because they were disappointed last year and ended up donating a half-transformed thing to Value Village.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:13 AM   #49
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Re: TFs getting too hard to transform?

Picked up a second TF Prime Bumblebee and 2 Starscreams. As deluxes go Starscream was pretty easy to Transform. Bumblebee was a pain in the ass, and he has door panel pegs that snap right off really easy. I couldn't see a kid transforming him, I had to force the door open when he was in car mode so I could transform him, it took a lot of force.
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Old 11-27-2011, 02:55 AM   #50
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Re: TFs getting too hard to transform?

I don't have a Leader or any movie Prime but I don't think Transformers are that hard nowadays. I can still transform them no problem without instructions. Still they are more complicated than say...Cybertron era toys.

What I hate is when there is things that don't really peg into place and are supposed to just...magically hang there. The DOTM Ratchet mold is great but his shoulders don't hold into place and then to sag when holding his weapon! HA Whirl for exemple has a weird cockpit in vehicle mode that never seems to hold like it shoulder. To say nothing of his rotor blades and giant skid feets that are always getting in the way.

Ratchet is great though because he's fairly solid and a lot of flat surfaces on him are whole blocks of vehicle mode. He's not one of those panel-filled shell-formers the movie line is riddled with. Well he's got a bad case of backpack disease going on but he's still relatively chunky.

I bet I could remove all the panels from deluxe crankcase and have both a robot and car (without wheels). To say nothing of that fact his dreads and arms constantly want to occupy the same place in vehicle mode. Dude is pretty creepy as a robot but he's such a pain to put back into vehicle mode for me. I always feel like I'm doing something wrong and the instructions aren't helping.
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