I officially hate MP Grimlock

[Wheeljack Off]

Originally Posted by Nullray

Why do you care? If you don't enjoy them just don't buy them. simple

I could say that if it bugs you, just buy the official ones...but don't deny that you're buying a kncok off.

Originally Posted by Devotron

Ok I understand that you see that any toy without a "transformers" name on it is fake

So then if the company got hired or employed HasTak to design and officially license them they would only then be really?


In this case you are simply just paying for the name brand. Yes people have a nostalgic feeling, for example,
optimus prime from the cartoon in 1984 but that's what they have the feeling for. Just because someone else designed it dose not make it fake, all it is a name brand.

I am not even really to sure what this comment means.

Originally Posted by nervousviper

IMO "transformers" is just a brand name, so if other companies do a transforming robots doesn't necessarily means that it's FAKE. For me 3P products is as good as the real deal as long as quality is there.

Back on topic i love my MP Grimlock never got any issue with it but mainly because i never played with my TF.

That's like saying if someone else made some Nike Air Jordans and called them jordan's air....they wouldn't be a knock off???

The very fact that they have to call it a different name indicates that it IS a knock off.

I can't even comprehend how anyone couldn't comprehend this.

If Hastak hadn't created these figures and character first, the 3p companies would have nothing to offer you...because they would have no designs to steal and no market to sell to as none of us would give a crap about any of them.

3p parties are capitalizing on the sentiment that Hastak created.

None of you would care about Scoria if there was no original character for you to relate to and no original slag design for them to steal and improve.

[Nullray]

I am not buying a knock off at all. I am buying a uniquely engineer item by which ever company decides to produce it. Your making the leap of association and thats duely your own fault. They break no intellectual property laws. Its like saying after Ford Motor company in 1908 produced the Model T. since it has four wheels and an engine that every car since that date is a knockoff. Patent laws govern for around 15 years of exclusive rights and after that it is open market for full duplication. Only Igear intially reverse engineered their seeker sets and shit hit the fan for that. So if there was a valid lawsuit to be had it would take place by the precedent set by the Igear scenario. I buy with confidence with the help peer evaluations and reviews and steer clear of everything else.

[OLDMR]

Originally Posted by Nullray

I am not buying a knock off at all. I am buying a uniquely engineer item by which ever company decides to produce it. Your making the leap of association and thats duely your own fault. They break no intellectual property laws. Its like saying after Ford Motor company in 1908 produced the Model T. since it has four wheels and an engine that every car since that date is a knockoff. Patent laws govern for around 15 years of exclusive rights and after that it is open market for full duplication. Only Igear intially reverse engineered their seeker sets and shit hit the fan for that. So if there was a valid lawsuit to be had it would take place by the precedent set by the Igear scenario. I buy with confidence with the help peer evaluations and reviews and steer clear of everything else.

Yeah! what he said!

[CobraCommander]

Originally Posted by Wheeljack Off

3p parties are capitalizing on the sentiment that Hastak created.

None of you would care about Scoria if there was no original character for you to relate to and no original slag design for them to steal and improve.

But that's just it 3P's are capitalizing on an existing product, they are not copying it 1:1 or even calling it a "Transformer", sure it looks similar but it's not the same. I have a hard time believing that Hastak would be able to make a legal argument.

It may be strange to you, but copying ideas is how things progress through the course of our history on this planet (we call Earth). It's been done before countless times outside of the toy business. For example take Apple and their iPhone, there is nothing new about it aside from them putting all these pre-existing features (phone, computer, games, camera, organizer, etc.) into a single, simple and pretty package. In a sense they took all those features and made them better (as in easier to use) and work in a cohesive environment.

Watch this short documentary on copying/copy rights... it's very enlightening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ryPC8bxqE

[Janitor]

Originally Posted by Wheeljack Off

I could say that if it bugs you, just buy the official ones...but don't deny that you're buying a knock off.

So which official HasTak toy is something like FT Quakewave or Scoria "knocking off" exactly? You keep incorrectly trumpetting words like "knock off" or "fake" without knowing their actual meaning.

Sure we could say it's "unlicensed/unauthorized use of intellectual property", but they're not replicating any official toy from top to bottom.

That's like saying if someone else made some Nike Air Jordans and called them jordan's air....they wouldn't be a knock off???

That comparison is 100% inaccurate. If a 3p company made an exact copy (ie. same engineering) of a official Transformer then yes I would agree. But they're creating updates/modern day MP engineering/etc. Again, unauthorized and probably not legal. But not the straight "knock off" as per your comarison.
It would be more accurate if you the situation was somone else made these "Jordan's Air" that had design updates in some way.

Bottom line:
Knock-off/fake = looks same as original, can't tell just by looking
unauthorized use of intellectual property = take someone else's existing licensed designs (without permission) and created something new

[elburrito]

In Canada, it would be copyright that was violated but, copyright protects only the "form of expression" of an idea, not the idea itself.

The penalty for infringement generally appears to be having to pay a royalty to the copyright holder.

Also, there are fair use exceptions (which might be why it is not illegal to download "free" music in Canada. Would also explain the rows of xerox machines often found in the library).

(If you want a chuckle Google "bronies", "my little pony - friendship is magic" and "the Wu-tang" clan. There were a couple of lawsuits, one concerned a music video, the other a fan-made pony...really is good reading :0)

So with most 3p toys, there is not any intellectual property infringement unless the toy actually claims to be the original, or is so close in appearance or name that buyers would be likely to confuse it for the original.

A toy that falls into one of the above is a KO or fake, otherwise, it's fair game.

[steamwhistle]

Has anyone bought a 3P transforming robot toy which has no resemblance to an official Transformer cartoon or comic character?

If so, which ones?

I'm pretty sure a lot of people here would not buy a 3P bot if it doesn't resemble a character seen in the Transformers universe.

I doubt people would be raving about Quakewave if the Shockwave character did not exist in the Transformers world.

I think the debate can be defined in that line of thinking. It is not about what is technically legally permitted, it's about the image of the various characters and the use of the images to base the creation of toys.

Me, I haven't bought any 3P. Yet. I'm not wholly against it... I think if HasTak is taking too long and/or might never get around to making it, I probably would look into buying a 3P TF.

However, the pricing is another issue. I can't spend $600 on a 3P PredaKing.

[OLDMR]

If it wasn't for 3rd party we'd probably only have bayformers to collect.

[pside9]

I love Scoria (I don't own one though because of a recent cash crunch) and I think their homage to Snarl will be great too. I can see a place for 3P figures when they're giving us characters overlooked by Hasbro.

They're not knock offs or fakes because they're not trying to cheaply copy/simplify existing toys. They're unauthorized use of IP but they're really putting effort into the engineering and giving us more in that respect. The unfortunate costs of 3P figures though is what keeps me from collecting full combiners etc.

[(/'-')/ Peanut]

FP Steel Core and Glacial Lord comes to mind as some that do not remind me of any existing character, but then my knowledge of characters isn't very extensive. Even if the characters exist, having purchased these items without prior knowledge of them does show that there is a market for completely non-official designs.