TTC On Strike

[Retrospex]

Full pay on leave will never happen. That's a given. Pay increase should happen and they need to settle. Of course the TTC will raise the price of fares... but is that really a problem?

I'll pay more for better service and cleaner subway terminals.

~Spe><

[cannabisprime]

Originally Posted by Retrospex

State funerals? No. That is ridiculous. Accidents do happen, but the risk of accidents is higher for TTC workers as opposed to.... retail or office workers. I already agreed with you that leaving riders stranded was wrong.

Seems to me that I am the only one in support of negotiations for the TTC workers and a lot of angry people are coming out. Perhaps the stress of this strike is already taking it's toll?


~Spe><

It's a poor comparison to try and compare TTC workers to retail or office workers; in that comparision, of course TTC workers (such as a bus driver) will face a higher risk of say, getting in a vehicular accident than the office worker typing on Cybertron.ca

People are not angry because of the strike itself; at least know I'm not. It is a legal strike, that is a fact; however their reasoning for their strike coupled with the lack of a reasonable amount of time (to warn the public about it) is the stone that caused the ripple for me.

[-KG-]

Originally Posted by Retrospex

State funerals? No. That is ridiculous. Accidents do happen, but the risk of accidents is higher for TTC workers as opposed to.... retail or office workers. I already agreed with you that leaving riders stranded was wrong.

Seems to me that I am the only one in support of negotiations for the TTC workers and a lot of angry people are coming out. Perhaps the stress of this strike is already taking it's toll?


~Spe><

Excuse me? Show me the proof that TTC workers are at higher risks compared to anyone else in society.

Quite frankly the drivers where happy with what they got. This strike happened because the maintenance workers where not happy. I do not support a union which takes these types of tactics to get what it wants.

Stress taking the toll? I'm fine, I'm about to jump in my car and go about my day. But tomorrow morning I'm going to drive the people I know who make minimum wage and have no benefits to work so they can make some money. That's what this is really about. At the end of all this, all TTC employees will have there jobs. People do get fired if they don't show up to work, TTC or not. I'm done. Have a nice day.

[cannabisprime]

Originally Posted by Retrospex

Full pay on leave will never happen. That's a given. Pay increase should happen and they need to settle. Of course the TTC will raise the price of fares... but is that really a problem?

I'll pay more for better service and cleaner subway terminals.

~Spe><

As far as I know, full pay on leave was actually in the tentative contract that was voted down; go figure that out.

It will be a problem; I mean, c'mon, city coffers are not a bottomless pit. So you propose that TTC should just raise the TTC workers pay in perpetuity.. and in conjunction.. raise the price of fares in perpetuity as well? That's not even a settlement; it's a case of shotgun negotiation. "Give in to our demands or we leave you stranded." Love those alternatives.

A raise in fares will not necessarily translate into better services anyways; the last few fare increases are a testament to that. A lot of surface routes were actually cut more than 5 years ago after a fare hike.

Spex, since you work for Air Canada, you should ask the newly hired baggage handlers making $10/hr if they think the TTC workers are fairly compensated (in comparison to them).

[Retrospex]

Originally Posted by -KG-

Excuse me? Show me the proof that TTC workers are at higher risks compared to anyone else in society.

I'm simply stating: Anybody who works in vehicles or with heavy machinery have higher risks than workers who do not. So I believe they do have higher risks than most people in society.

Quite frankly the drivers where happy with what they got. This strike happened because the maintenance workers where not happy. I do not support a union which takes these types of tactics to get what it wants.

They are sticking together which is good for a union. The tactics are wrong in my eyes but in theirs they had to do something.

Stress taking the toll? (I was generally speaking. I'm getting phone calls from friends and family who have stressfully made alternate methods of transportation last minute) I'm fine, I'm about to jump in my car and go about my day. But tomorrow morning I'm going to drive the people I know who make minimum wage and have no benefits to work so they can make some money.

Which is honorable and yet unfortunate for all of us. I gotta do the same thing.

That's what this is really about. At the end of all this, all TTC employees will have there jobs. People do get fired if they don't show up to work, TTC or not.

I'm done. Have a nice day.

Have a good one. It's good to hear other opinions and experiences while having debates with educated people who do their research.

I guess we only can just sit back and see what will be the outcome. Hopefully soon.

~Spe><

[Retrospex]

Originally Posted by cannabisprime

It will be a problem; I mean, c'mon, city coffers are not a bottomless pit. So you propose that TTC should just raise the TTC workers pay in perpetuity.. and in conjunction.. raise the price of fares in perpetuity as well? That's not even a settlement; it's a case of shotgun negotiation. "Give in to our demands or we leave you stranded." Love those alternatives.

I'm sure I'm not one to propose negotiations, but I believe giving the maintenance workers a fair deal (isn't that what the strike was about?) and the creation of jobs such as terminal cleaning should be on the table. A small pay raise is inevitable as it has succumbed to more demands now that they are on strike.

A raise in fares will not necessarily translate into better services anyways; the last few fare increases are a testament to that. A lot of surface routes were actually cut more than 5 years ago after a fare hike.

I agree. But who's decision was that?

Spex, since you work for Air Canada, you should ask the newly hired baggage handlers making $10/hr if they think the TTC workers are fairly compensated (in comparison to them).

I don't have to ask. I am certain that the newly hired baggage handlers feel like they are treated like dirt especially compared to the TTC workers and their higher starting wages. Air Canada does give them flying benefits as soon as they are on the work roster and shift trades are welcome. They do get a yearly pay increase but like any union it's still seniority rules on bidding for time and work positions. They get left the worst jobs and schedules until after grinding for about 2-3 years, but most of them get blinded by the flights.

Our contract ends in 2009 and the union is divided. Strike or no strike? Buy outs for the nearly retired and typical internal restructuring. Lots of promises and threats. During our last contract negotiations, our union bent over and took payouts from the company which looked after the senior workers without helping out the new guys. It was corrupt. Of course that "old guard" union is gone and hopefully we can all get along this time around.

My advice is to not buy a ticket in June 2009 on Air Canada because we don't know what will happen.

~Spe><

[devilsknight]

Wow. Didn't expect this to carry on to such a big debate. But good stuff...I like a good conversation.

Retrospex I also work in YYZ Airport, you've probably spoken to me a few times. Seeing i'm pretty much a central hub here...But anyways...

It's not about providing customer service anymore to any business it's all about how much profits and bonuses they can take home at the end of day now. Do CEO's deserve a 12 Million dollar bonus...probably not. In businesses with unions there is too much cash at the top and too much at the bottom of the ladder and it leaves the middle people, the consumer to suffer.

TTC workers are getting more than enough pay right now and as they continue to keep ahead of cost of living. They deserve exactly what they give in return...I hardly buy the "abuse" some of them take sometimes, I saw one passenger say thank you once for getting a transfer, the driver yelled "what the hell did you just say to me ?" the passenger turned and said you know what...screw you then...then the driver halts the bus and claims he was verbally assaulted. Gimme a friggen break. A friend of mine who is a driver admitted to me that they even embelish some of stuff so that they can present a bigger case when the contract was up for negotiation.

These jackasses are paid in some cases more than Police, Fire, Ambulance, Doctors and Teachers. How are they important again in the grand scheme of things ?! My friend works for Brampton Transit...makes $44,000 to START...to drive a bus !? That's outrageous. Most workers in unions and I use this for most of them GTAA included, are overpaid and underworked.

They think their drivers were getting abused when they gave 48 hour notice...wait what is said to them when they go back to work Monday morning for giving 2 hours notice ?! Their slimy union boss put them in more danger than he can imagine.

Union dues while they are on strike will pay for the mortgage and rent...it's not as much as they make right now, but they still receive something when they strike.

I go back to my original point about how the entire TTC system is collapsing every single day, the Toronto Star special on them a month or so ago comes to mind...all they think about is making lots of money and getting more and more from the governments. The TTC has received over 4 Billion...yes 4 Billion dollars in the last 5 years alone from Provincial and Federal chains of government, and what exactly has improved within the TTC ?! Nothing. Fares and wages have increased...that's about it. They're all a bunch of pigs sitting at their feeding pens waiting for another bucket of cash to get dumped in so they can eat it up. How many TTC workers made over $100K last year ? I don't have the exact numbers...but the list was like 20 pages total...4 or 5 were TTC workers. Yah they're hard done by for sure ! Not to mention a clause was inserted beyond their MINIMUM 3% increase each year that if say YRT or Mississauga Transit got a wage increase greater than the TTC...the TTC wages would increase further to top over those other transit corporations.

The TTC needs to be labelled a essential service, it services Millions of people everyday, and as they encourage people to take transit everyday...they're stupid stupid move yesterday only puts more people in the Oil Companies hands instead...and they're the greediest fuckers ever.

Any job...in any part of the world is risky TTC workers die, it's part of the job unfortunately. Just as a cop is killed or a firefighter. Your comment about those accidents that resulted in deaths for $23 an hour...what about the Gas station attendant who is robbed and killed ? what about the convience store worker ? They make just over on average $8 an hour.

$8 an hour in exchange of their lives. It pales to $23 an hour.

The City of Toronto, in all of stupidity is probably the worst bunch of idiots i've ever seen when it comes to money and how they bitch and complain about the lack of it. Not to mention the free ride people there get with their low taxes in comparison to other cities in the GTA...Newmarket taxes almost 2.5 times MORE than Toronto. They can make the money they need, if they'd tighten their belts...collect more money from it's citizens and quit whining to the governments. But enough about them that's a different topic all together.

Do you how many on any given day, how many TTC workers sit there for 10 hours on end with their butts parked in seats in lounges watching TV, with a slim chance of actually doing any work ?! More than I can count...my friend who works for the TTC raves about it all the time.

Stop the whining...stop over hiring...stop over paying them, clean up the stations, repair the shelters and the tunnels and get back to working on making public transit. Shit...even on strike today too bad they couldn't take advantage of the extra down time and get to fixing some stuff. It be the smart thing to do...but what do I know.

Unions when they started back in the 1920's served a purpose, now for the most part they serve nothing but greed and corruption. Most Unions don't do anything close to what they were meant to do, they employ bully tactics when they aren't necessary, and both sides should be ashamed of what happened today.

Yes they did want 100% coverage, up from the 85% they currently have. If I wanted to pay more for better TTC service i'd gladly pay it, but whenever there is an increase it's because of increased wages, not an increase in service or maintenance. $4 billion dollars...

Did you know were the only G8 Nation to NOT have a national transit strategy ?! To not have our transit system labelled as an essential service ?

As for Air Canada and it's union...all I gotta say is, might explain why the checkins and gate workers are so grumpy compared to the other airlines here, I can't believe the grief we get from them sometimes...not that all of them are like that. But we don't get as much for every other airline as we do from Air Canada.

I'm at work right now...as you can tell not doing much...then again I'm paid for my brain, not for how much work I do.

[Dark Rage]

The TTC Strike affected more people than you think...

Apparently I found out one of the major reasons why the TTC went on strike!



"What are your terms?"

"More Energon!"

"Damnit, you know that's not possible!"

Ok, I don't have the RiD JRX trains, but you get the idea

[GMfan]

Why not just post a pic of Bonecrusher crashing through a bus and claim unsuitable working environment :P

[Dark Rage]

Hey, if it were up to me, I'd ask Matt Moylan to introduce Transitron, an Autobot Streetcar who'd go on strike when Prime asks for a simple favour.

I'm sure he'll sell well as a toy though, haha.