Change to Hasbro Canada involvement in TFcon 2012

[JTR Hobby]

Originally Posted by Scrapper6

I'm sorry, but what you are describing there is a gross oversimplification. There is this thing called Free Enterprise, it exists to protect the companies, all companies. Legally Hasbro is well within their rights to attack the 3rd parties, I find it highly improbable though that they are legally entitled to seizing the packages being shipped from China or wherever selling these copywright IP infringing products.

If it were that simple the 3rd party companies would be long out of business by now.

Yes it is a gross over simplication, and it is not that simple.

Hasbro themselves would not confiscate anythign as they don't have that right, but what they can do is file a complaint with Canada Customs/US Customs about confeit merchandise being imported or suspected shipment violating IP Laws or whatever legal argument they need to have the shippments stopped at the border and inspected. Then things will go from there. If you say it can't be done, look at what happened with BBTS and all of their MP Megatrons that were stopped at the border and inspected and forced BBTS to install orange plugs to conform with US law.

Hasbro hasn't bothered to pursue 3rd party companies (I suspect) until now because they haven't been much of an issue until lately.

If these 3rd party companies want to be legit, then they should get a lisence to product the items then there is no issue. I know Takara issues 1 day licenses for toy shows in Japan where companies can produced licsenced Transformers merchandise, perhaps the same could be done here.

[JTR Hobby]

Originally Posted by Robimus

Would you consider Kre-O bootleg Lego?

I'm just curious because while I understand what you are trying to communicate there seems to be a lot of gray areas surrounding this whole issue.

Taken from Wiki-pedia about Lego and Mega Blocks:

"
The LEGO Group has filed law suits against Mega Bloks, Inc. in courts around the world on the grounds that Mega Bloks' use of the "studs and tubes" interlocking brick system is a violation of trademarks held by LEGO. Generally such law suits have been unsuccessful, chiefly because the functional design of the basic brick is considered a matter of patent rather than trademark law, and all relevant LEGO patents have expired. In one of the most recent decisions, on November 17, 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada upheld Mega Bloks' right to continue selling the product in Canada.[3] A similar decision was reached by the European Union's Court of First Instance on November 12, 2008 when it upheld a EU trademark agency decision following an objection by Mega Bloks against a trademark awarded to LEGO in 1999.[4]
On September 14, 2010, the European Court of Justice ruled that the 8-peg design of the original LEGO brick "merely performs a technical function [and] cannot be registered as a trademark"."

Hence why everyone and their dog can produce Lego-type bricks

[Scrapper6]

Originally Posted by JTR Hobby

Yes it is a gross over simplication, and it is not that simple.

Hasbro themselves would not confiscate anythign as they don't have that right, but what they can do is file a complaint with Canada Customs/US Customs about confeit merchandise being imported or suspected shipment violating IP Laws or whatever legal argument they need to have the shippments stopped at the border and inspected. Then things will go from there. If you say it can't be done, look at what happened with BBTS and all of their MP Megatrons that were stopped at the border and inspected and forced BBTS to install orange plugs to conform with US law.

Hasbro hasn't bothered to pursue 3rd party companies (I suspect) until now because they haven't been much of an issue until lately.

If these 3rd party companies want to be legit, then they should get a lisence to product the items then there is no issue. I know Takara issues 1 day licenses for toy shows in Japan where companies can produced licsenced Transformers merchandise, perhaps the same could be done here.

I'm sorry, but there is a huge difference between forcing someone to insert orange plugs into a toy made by a company that is imported into the states and siezing all products that are 'Transformers' Not Made By Hasbro.

That my friend is what is known as a Monopoly, it tramples on the rights of everyone involved with free enterprise. No one company has the right to prevent the importing of product from outside of the country, just because it infringes on IP. If that were the case than all those Dollar Store Knock-Offs and shit would have been stopped already from ever setting foot into the merchandise pool.

I understand Japan has strict laws surrounding the KOs of Pokemon products, due to regulation and safety laws being not enforced with thos KOs and all that other legal mumbo jumbo stuff. (I'm not a law student, so I don't know the ins and outs of everything.)

However, I am fairly certain that it would be absolutely AGAINST the best relationships between Hasbro and Fans if such actions were taken. As well as Hasbro and Retailers who have sold 3rd party products.

Hasbro is not the one with the clout, it is the retailers who dictitate to Hasbro what products they are willing to accept. If all the smaller avenue online retailers started getting blanket bannings and warnings of all Hasbro products due to them selling 3rd Party Products... Well it would not sit well with people at all.

Canada Customs or whoever also can't legally hold a 3rd Party Product for IP infringement, I mean if it was unsafe as a toy for kids, that's an entirely different kettle of fish. But these are all marketed as Adult Collectibles and Not For Children clearly on the packaging.

Then there is the one glaringly obvious fact that, if you start putting country wide bans on products because they are bootlegs or IP infringing... Well what about all those cheap DVD and BR players that people buy that aren't big name companies? What about the cheapo phones and cameras that everybody and their mother sells at retail chains as alternatives to the big expensive named brands? You wanna start banning those too? Force people only to buy Sony Products or Wal-Mart Brand TVs?

Monopolizing is just as illegal as IP infringement in Free Enterprise/Free Market societies.

[RageD]

I'm firmly planted in the "who gives a rat's ass camp". It's a nice camp, friendly banter, the occasional badminton game.

[JTR Hobby]

Originally Posted by Scrapper6

I'm sorry, but there is a huge difference between forcing someone to insert orange plugs into a toy made by a company that is imported into the states and siezing all products that are 'Transformers' Not Made By Hasbro.

That my friend is what is known as a Monopoly, it tramples on the rights of everyone involved with free enterprise. No one company has the right to prevent the importing of product from outside of the country, just because it infringes on IP. If that were the case than all those Dollar Store Knock-Offs and shit would have been stopped already from ever setting foot into the merchandise pool.

If that is the case then why are there news stories about huge shipments of fake Gucci purses or Nike shoes (just random examples) all the time. Does that not make Nike a monopoly on Nike shoes? Under your exapmle everything should be fair game to sell. Hasbro has a legal right to have a monopoly on "Transformers" products, images, etc. They cannot however prevent some other company from starting a rival transforming robot line that could compete against Hasbro. The rival line however could not use likenesses, colors, etc that would confuse the average consumer (i.e. someone that knows nothing about Transformers) into thinking it is a genuine Hasbro product.

Hasbro is not the one with the clout, it is the retailers who dictitate to Hasbro what products they are willing to accept. If all the smaller avenue online retailers started getting blanket bannings and warnings of all Hasbro products due to them selling 3rd Party Products... Well it would not sit well with people at all.

If you look at Online Retailers (I will stick with online retailers because I have yet to see any 3rd party stuff in TRU) most of them have around 90% legal 1st party product. As a business would you loose 90% of your ability to sell product for the sake of 10%? Probably not, as the 90% is where you make your money, not the 10%.

Then there is the one glaringly obvious fact that, if you start putting country wide bans on products because they are bootlegs or IP infringing... Well what about all those cheap DVD and BR players that people buy that aren't big name companies? What about the cheapo phones and cameras that everybody and their mother sells at retail chains as alternatives to the big expensive named brands? You wanna start banning those too? Force people only to buy Sony Products or Wal-Mart Brand TVs?

Different can of worms. Technology is protected by patents not IP laws. The difference would be if these DVD players were being shipped in boxes that strongly resembled Sony (for example) packaging, and were confusing people into believing that they were genuine Sony product.

[RageD]

Your not going to convince each other... It's like a game of Rockem sockem robots that is broken

[justprime]

Originally Posted by Robimus

Would you consider Kre-O bootleg Lego?

I'm just curious because while I understand what you are trying to communicate there seems to be a lot of gray areas surrounding this whole issue.

hasbro Speed stars + hotwheels by mattel

[Sureshot22]

lol this is amusing reading this back and forth and its not going to chang anything.

3rd party stuff is here to stay plain and simple. its a huge money maker for online stores and they would prob drop hasbro before dropping them.

we can agree to dissagree with eachother.






but you guys that are hasbro fanbois/lemmings are WRONG!!

lol couldn't resist

[JTR Hobby]

Originally Posted by Sureshot22

3rd party stuff is here to stay plain and simple. its a huge money maker for online stores and they would prob drop hasbro before dropping them.

As an online retailer (not so much any more), based on my experience the only ones making tons of money off of 3rd party items are the 3rd party producers. There is only a slightly larger margin in the 3rd party stuff vs 1st party stuff, and you make up the difference in the margins with being able to move larger volumes of 1st party stuff.

[Buhawi]

Originally Posted by Omegatron

Wait, so Hasbro's response to the third parties is to show up at a convention which is broadly supportive of third party toys and then not present to the fans anything which might compete with the third parties?

Hasbro if you're going to show up present, if you're not going to present but still show up I really don't understand what kind of message you are trying to send.

Exactly.

Then some fans just give Hasbro the cold shoulder in response.

Such an awesome fandom we have here.