Canadian Slag Episode 13 - Revenge is here!

[Code of Honor]

With the second Transformers movie out how could the Slaggers not have a round at discussing all the pros and cons, favourite and worst characters/moments, improvements that could have been made, and what we want to see in the future? Exactly we couldn't. Only people who have seen this unnecessary amounts of time were welcome to this recording.

SPOILER WARNING!

[Code of Honor]

Episode 13 - Revenge is here!
Host: Chris (GMfan) w/ Ryan (soundwaveCA), Daniel (Protoman) and Phil (Decepticon Army)
- Transformers Revenge of The Fallen discussion

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Come on join the Canadian Slag Lounge it's dieing over there.

[Protoman]

Whoop! That was fast!

[Robimus]

Finally catching up to the Slag.

So first off I'll comment on the very vocal defense of all things TFTM2 in ther opening, in particular the Decepticon Clones.

This blind gushing can be simply as bad as the hating that you guys are coming down on. Thats right, they are virtually the same

GMFan101 soundly defends the Decepticlones as not something to be critical of because thats how things were in G1.

But then only minutes later another criticism is defended because TFTM2 isn't G1, because its a seperate continuity.

I don't think you can have this both ways. Defending one creative choice because its very G1, only to immediatly point out that its not G1 as the basis of arguement against the next criticism of the film.

I do totally agree that there are a lot of G1 nods in the film, even if they have been re-invented, and I think thats a good thing. Energon, the Matrix, so on. Thats all good stuff.

The issue with the Decepticlones is simply that they are confusing. One scene in the film explaining them would have solved the whole situation, but we don't get that in the film.

All one needs do is look at the review threads both here and TFW to see how much confusion that created for people.

People that were not scouring the internetz for info thought that Blackout and Bonecrsuher were back, others are picking Barricade out of the film because they saw a bot with his head, even though its not Barricade.

And all those extra Mini - Megatron's running were another confusion of the same ilk.

Mudflap and Skids are in no way Racist, I completely agree. A gangster rapper isn't a race, its that simple.

And yes the movie is overly vulgar at times, another agreement from me. Soundwave and Ravage ruled and Starscream was everything I wanted him to be.

Megatron was wussified unfortunalty, which might have been the biggest misstep Bay made in the film.

Scalpel was awesome as well.

I agree with Proto on a lot of the issues. I'm sure I'll like it better the more I watch it, but I can't forgive the little faults even if I can get past it and still enjoy it.

I'm still critical of the first film for having Barricade vanish, so I'm not going to be any easier on this one when Bay does the same thing with not one character, but three.

Wheelie, Mudflap and Skids deserved better than to magically vanish.

I suspect the Fallen was used because the creative team wanted to kill a main villian, but not Megtron.

And I do think its great that they used Scraplets as a name, even if only because I've been been calling them that since I first saw him myself.

In closing didn't Bay say that he didn't kill Barricade in TFTM 1 because he wanted to bring him back for the sequel I could have sworn I heard an interview where he said that.

[Robimus]

And I forgot to mention the G.I.Joe hate....yikes

No one has even seen this film yet everyone seems to know its gonna suck......

See here's my perspective as having been a big Joe fan as a kid. Movie Snake Eyes, he looks exactly like original Snake Eyes, Movie Stormshadow....he looks like the original Stormshadow

Baroness....check
Destro.......check
Zartan.......check(well he is a Master of Disguise)
Duke.....frankly he looks even cooler that the original.
Shipwreck.....Well if the toy is accurate the dude even still has his parrot

To me G.I.Joe, like Transformers, is about recreating the feel of the original source material while freshening it up a little.

Yeah the Ironman suits look kinda crappy, but I really doubt that that heroes are going to spend that much time in those suits.

I have one question for everyone being critical of this film before it even comes out. What do you want a G.I.Joe Movie to be?

[GMfan]

Originally Posted by Robimus

This blind gushing can be simply as bad as the hating that you guys are coming down on. Thats right, they are virtually the same

Blind gushing? We bashed! We bashed! I can bash more if you want... I know it's not perfect but I enjoy it as a movie with transforming robots at war. I don't think we'll ever get the perfect Transformers film so my standards are low :P

Originally Posted by Robimus

GMFan101 soundly defends the Decepticlones as not something to be critical of because thats how things were in G1.

But then only minutes later another criticism is defended because TFTM2 isn't G1, because its a seperate continuity.

I don't think you can have this both ways. Defending one creative choice because its very G1, only to immediatly point out that its not G1 as the basis of arguement against the next criticism of the film.

I find it humourous how it bothers people, it just doesn't bother me as much I suppose. I'd like it more if they had various colours like Rampage having a yellow and red version and Demolishor being more white and Scavenger being more red.

I'm glad the movie isn't totally G1 because G1 now a days bores me and what I loved about it was the characters and not the stories for the most part. So what I like about the movies is they take these characters that I know and love and put them in a different situation which I find fun. The nods throughout the films (both) stretch far beyond G1 though and putting them in the film I think are great. Hell the "spark" and protoforms weren't introduced till Beast Wars. I think this is the same reason certain people liked animated was because it pulled so much from the Transformers universe as a whole, not exclusive to G1.

Originally Posted by Robimus

The issue with the Decepticlones is simply that they are confusing. One scene in the film explaining them would have solved the whole situation, but we don't get that in the film.

This I'll agree with, even a scene with Megatron or Starscream saying "Good work retreaving the boy Grindor" *Grindor nods.... something but who knows maybe there was things that were cut....the editing was horrendous in this film

Originally Posted by Robimus

Megatron was wussified unfortunalty, which might have been the biggest misstep Bay made in the film.

I think this will be rectified in the next film as there seems to have been a scene removed at the end of the film there was supposed to be Megatron releasing the rest of his protoform army to wage all out war but I think it was cut since the writers wanted to leave it open in case they didn't come back for the 3rd film and not lock the next in line into a story they may not want to do. Which begs the question, what else was altered/removed? I'd love to get my hands on a final script....

Originally Posted by Robimus

Wheelie, Mudflap and Skids deserved better than to magically vanish.

If you think this is bad notice that you never actually see Skids and Mudflap transform on screen in their eco car forms :P

Originally Posted by Robimus

I suspect the Fallen was used because the creative team wanted to kill a main villian, but not Megtron.

I think they just wanted a new villain and he topped the bad ass list in their mind but was poorly implemented and used.

Originally Posted by Robimus

In closing didn't Bay say that he didn't kill Barricade in TFTM 1 because he wanted to bring him back for the sequel I could have sworn I heard an interview where he said that.

I believe Orci stated somewhere that they wanted to bring him back in the 3rd one but now they seem to want out from the franchise so who knows...I'm hoping he comes back because he lives on in IDW's continuity


PS:

Originally Posted by Robimus

I have one question for everyone being critical of this film before it even comes out. What do you want a G.I.Joe Movie to be?

I'm normally not one of those people who judge a book by its cover but I don't see anything remotely entertaining about G.I. Joe, be it movie or prior. I'll go see it for the hell of it and give it a chance but at this point I can't bring myself to like the Joeverse at all. I like some of the vehicles I've seen though but again never urged to buy one.

What do I want the G.I. Joe movie to be?...Entertaining for the fans hopefully, but from what I've seen they will probably be more harsh on that film then we are on both of ours :P

[Robimus]

I'm glad the movie isn't totally G1 because G1 now a days bores me and what I loved about it was the characters and not the stories for the most part. So what I like about the movies is they take these characters that I know and love and put them in a different situation which I find fun. The nods throughout the films (both) stretch far beyond G1 though and putting them in the film I think are great. Hell the "spark" and protoforms weren't introduced till Beast Wars. I think this is the same reason certain people liked animated was because it pulled so much from the Transformers universe as a whole, not exclusive to G1.

While G1 doesn't bore me I am glad they incorporated some other stuff, while being equally perplexed with other inclusions (Like the Pretender chick ).

Probably part of my issue is that I don't look toward the entire franchise with affection. Beast Wars stuff is kewl, Pretenders are lame, the Fallen mythos is worse(and kinda plucked from relative obscurity IMHO).

I think the writers should have looked a little more closely at the Franchise's history and gotten a bit of a better feel about what is popular and what is not instead of trying to include some of everything.

I mean just because Hsbro owns the Animorphs and its a similar concept doesn't mean it needs to be wedged into the film

That said I think a lot of the G1 is what makes it still work on a large level for fans. Be it Cullen's voice, or the Megatron/Starscream dynamic.

I actually would have really liked to have seen Kup(maybe in part three) because his character would be easy to convey, yet immediatly recognizable, much in the same way that Prime, Jazz and Starscream were and are. And even how Ironhide, Ratchet, Soundwave and Ravage are to a lesser extent.

See its not a complete G1 feel I'm looking for. I loved the new takes on Bumblebee and Frenzy, the originality of the Twin's and Wheelie, or even Jetfire(though of course he has the G1 nods as well with him changing sides)

I think one more recognizable character like Kup or Gears, with a simple personality, might have been fun might have worked better than Sideswipe or Jolt or the Arcee triplets.

Of course if TFTM 3 gives us Shockwave or Grimlock I'll totally give you Energon Buckethead, or Armada Laserbeak as a trade off.

[Team Jetfire]

Great Podcast Guys. I really like the fact that you could both like the movie and be critical of it. Internet fans are a fikle bunch and fail to understand that There will never be a perfect Transformers series and the Movie is no exception. Sure some have come closer than others, but we have always been able to look past the errors in the past and still appricaite the movie for what it was, a new take on the Transformers series.

[soundwaveCA]

To be honest I really felt like I didn't communicate my true thoughts on the movie, fortunety the WTF@TFW movie discussion pretty much covered most of what I would have brought up.

Only scene I would have liked to discussed more was the whole scene with the professor and Sam's breakdown in class. I really felt that was the only BS scene that really pissed me off. The whole notion of this prof being some sort of hot shit with all the girls slobbering all over him was absolutely ludicrous (referring himself as the alpha and omaga WTF!)

[Team Jetfire]

I agree, the scene was another great example of a scene that really didn`t need to be included. But the guy from the Office was in it, so it made me laugh...