Live Script Reading Question

[Nightshade83]

I was just wondering, was the live script reading at the convention considered an "official" work of fiction by Hasbro, like the ones at BotCon apparently are?

I was just wondering. It would be nice to rub it in the Americans at Teletraan 1's faces that they don't have the only official convention stories.

If it isn't, it should be. Gregg Berger and all the fan voice actors did an amazing job!

[energon]

I was just wondering, was the live script reading at the convention considered an "official" work of fiction by Hasbro, like the ones at BotCon apparently are?

I was just wondering. It would be nice to rub it in the Americans at Teletraan 1's faces that they don't have the only official convention stories.

If it isn't, it should be. Gregg Berger and all the fan voice actors did an amazing job!

That is interesting, I had no idea that the voice reading was supposed to be official anything at Botcon and I went to both cons. I Really don't think anyone would care anyway. I enjoyed the one at TFCon more.

[JLvatron]

Glad you like the script reading, friend! :)

Neither TFcon nor BotCon/OTF script readings have ever been considered official by Hasbro, not even the OTF 1's written by Simon Furman.

While they are always silly (to keep the audience entertained), many times they involve Universe crossovers to satisfy the variety of Transformers, and these rarely fall into any continuity.

I prefer to write my scripts within 1 continuity (usually for the G1 Voice Actor) and set them up to support the established cartoon cannon.

[Protoman]

The last 2 Botcon Scripts and all the written material and stories used for the TF Collector Club is done by M. Sipher and Trent Troop. They both agreed that none of their material is cannon as it's too far fetched and silly and more just to please a small mass of hardcore fans. While the TFcon scripts do stick to a standard continuity (G1 Cartoon USA), it does not try to change or set a standard that will alter the current fiction. It's what I call "respectful fan fiction".

[Nightshade83]

Somebody better tell that to the guys at Teletraan 1. They seem to think the BotCon live script readings are "official" microcontinualities, while those from "lesser" (i.e. not American) conventions aren't given the same respect. Therefore, information revealed about characters in BotCon script readings are considered "canon" (i.e. what happens to Flamewar after the "Decent into Evil" comic), while Nightbird getting an alt mode in TFCon's script reading would not be.

Is it just me, or is that totally not fair?

Aw, screw them! This site's better anyway.

[Vangelus]

Well, to be fair, the convention-only characters exist for such miniscule amounts of time, it's not that bad to just let them have some more history. ;)

But yeah, the Botcon 2008 script reading ended with several "We shall never speak of this again"s, in order to try and really clearly disavow it from being official at all.

[Nightscrabbler]

But yeah, the Botcon 2008 script reading ended with several "We shall never speak of this again"s, in order to try and really clearly disavow it from being official at all.

I would have thought that that was a technique to make it seem like it really did happen but explain why there is no record/mention of it later.

[Magnimus]

I noticed that too at Teletraann 1; sometimes you will even find fanfaction written into the canon bios of official characters.

I guess that's what happens when you have a system where most anyone can change entries.

[JLvatron]

I was just wondering, was the live script reading at the convention considered an "official" work of fiction by Hasbro, like the ones at BotCon apparently are?


Actually, there is some truth to this, at least there was in the past.

Past BotCons (circa 2001) had convention exclusive Toys that were called the 'Extended Universe' line, and the script readings featured these characters (as well as the BW characters of the Voice Actors).

Since Extended Universe (or whatever they called it) was a BotCon-only toy line, the script story was part of that official continuity, as it had zero impact on any other TF line.

Just like the Collector's Club comics for Shattered Glass are official cannon for the Shattered Glass line of toys (again, BotCon only so it doesn't effect any mass toy lines)

But the new BotCon only started script readings this year, and followed the same format that TFcon established years ago: using established universes.

So their story is Not official. Sounds like the Teletraan guys are a confused bunch.:p

Hope this helps.:)

[JLvatron]

I would have thought that that was a technique to make it seem like it really did happen but explain why there is no record/mention of it later.

Yes, you are correct. It's a device usually used in crossovers or time travel stories; for exactly why you wrote.

The TFcon 2004 & 2006 script readings (crossovers) alluded such, while 2005, 2007, & 2008 were set in established single continuities.

[M Sipher]

The last 2 Botcon Scripts and all the written material and stories used for the TF Collector Club is done by M. Sipher and Trent Troop. They both agreed that none of their material is cannon as it's too far fetched and silly and more just to please a small mass of hardcore fans.
I'd just like to point out that this is an almost complete fabrication on Protoman's part. The only element of truth is that yes, Trent and I wrote "Bee in the City" and several other pieces for the Official Transformers Collectors' Club website and magazine (all of which goes through Hasbro's approvals process just like anything IDW does). The BC05 script predated our involvement with FP.


- GS

[Nightshade83]

Just where in Canada are you from, M Sipher, if you don't mind me asking? I had no idea you were a fellow Canuck, and you must be, since this is a Canadian Transformers site.

[Code of Honor]

Just where in Canada are you from, M Sipher, if you don't mind me asking? I had no idea you were a fellow Canuck, and you must be, since this is a Canadian Transformers site.

Not every one on this site is Canadian, nor do they have to be to join these boards.

[Dispensor]

Just where in Canada are you from, M Sipher, if you don't mind me asking? I had no idea you were a fellow Canuck, and you must be, since this is a Canadian Transformers site.

Excuse me, but what does it matter where Sipher is from? My understanding is that this is a TRANSFORMERS message board, meaning that anyone who's a fan is allowed to post, regardless of where they are from.

Frankly, sir, this behaviour is decidedly un-Canadian.

[Dispensor]

Somebody better tell that to the guys at Teletraan 1. They seem to think the BotCon live script readings are "official" microcontinualities, while those from "lesser" (i.e. not American) conventions aren't given the same respect. Therefore, information revealed about characters in BotCon script readings are considered "canon" (i.e. what happens to Flamewar after the "Decent into Evil" comic), while Nightbird getting an alt mode in TFCon's script reading would not be.

The Botcon live script readings are considered official canon because they were approved by Hasbro US. It's as simple as that. It has absolutely nothing to do with some non-existent, anti-Canadian bias.

[Nightshade83]

I was just pointing out that M Sipher joined all of a few hours ago just to point out a technicality. He has no other interest in this site. I don't really give a flying frag where he's from, if it weren't obvious.

And I'm not a "sir".

[JLvatron]

Excuse me, but what does it matter where Sipher is from? My understanding is that this is a TRANSFORMERS message board, meaning that anyone who's a fan is allowed to post, regardless of where they are from.

Frankly, sir, this behaviour is decidedly un-Canadian.

Hey, calm down dude, He/she never said it matters. The person was only curious. :)

We actually have people from all over the world on this board.

[JLvatron]

The Botcon live script readings are considered official canon because they were approved by Hasbro US. It's as simple as that. It has absolutely nothing to do with some non-existent, anti-Canadian bias.

The BotCon convention is approved by Hasbro so you could say all BotCon events are Hasbroly official.
Even if Hasbro reads the scripts and approves them (which would be awesome! :) ) it makes them officially endorsed. But that doesn't mean it's Transformers story cannon.

Approved and cannon are completely different things.

[Vangelus]

If people are actually getting -angry serious time- over the canonicity of convention-based scriptreadings, I'm going to take this kitten I have here in my hands and eat it alive.

[JLvatron]

If people are actually getting -angry serious time- over the canonicity of convention-based scriptreadings, I'm going to take this kitten I have here in my hands and eat it alive.

TeeHee-ous!

I think everyone should use 'canonicity' in a sentence. :p

[awa64]

The BotCon convention is approved by Hasbro so you could say all BotCon events are Hasbroly official.
Even if Hasbro reads the scripts and approves them (which would be awesome! :) ) it makes them officially endorsed. But that doesn't mean it's Transformers story cannon.

Approved and cannon are completely different things.

Except in the vast multiverse of Transformers fiction, the criteria for whether something is canon (http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Canon) or not comes down solely to whether or not said piece of fiction was approved by Hasbro.

Given the infinite multiverse concept laid out by Universe, the question of WHICH continuity it's canon in can be questioned, but its nature as canon cannot. That's resulted in a huge number of subcontinuities--there's probably over 7 continuities within the original Marvel G1 comics alone--but they're all canon.

[JLvatron]

I guess that's fine details, but you do have a point.

And I personally don't agree to that definition of Cannon. Keep in mind, Hasbro said the Cybertron show was a continuation of Energon.

...and it clearly wasn't.
But they still said it. :rolleyes:

[M Sipher]

Approved and cannon are completely different things.
For, say, Star Wars and Star Trek, this is true. Both of those franchises will officially declare sections of approved fiction non-canon (Trek does this) or "less canon" (the Wars approach, giving movies a higher level of "canon" than the eight jillion comics and books and RPGs and video games and etc).

Transformers, however... has no such edicts. Hasbro or Takara have never said "no, this doesn't count", and it's highly unlikely they ever will. Both have in fact gone to great lengths to be as fictionally all-inclusive as possible... Takara more maddeningly obsessive, given the colosso-G1 ultimate timeline they put out a year or so ago online and through Kiss Players, which ties pretty much everything outside of the Unicron Trilogy stories into a single uber-G1 series... and also retcons Galaxy Force as a post-Super Link series. Self-reference, epsecially obscure self-reference, has become the order of the day.

Basically, everything approved IS canon. It may contradict another piece; the Hasbro toy-packaging ad copy, Takara cartoons, Takara manga, 3H comics, IDW comics and FP comics/video to the base Beast Wars cartoon continuity are all irreconcilable with each other to varying degrees, but all are BW canon. It may be a "splinter timeline", a "what if", a sidestep (like the UK comic additions to the Marvel run). It may not apply to a certain "continuity family" (RiD is basically its own animal, though Car Robots isn't anymore). Oftentimes a lone piece of TF canon will not even agree with itself (cartoon Constructicon origins, anyone?).

TF canon is (and always has been) basically a gigantic plate of spaghetti, only some of the noodles splinter off, join other noodles, mobius in on themselves, and are probably also loaded with quantum. BW took both the irreconcilable cartoon and comic G1 as its vaguely-defined backstory, after all.

It may not work with some other piece... but it be all canon. Yes, even Beast Within, help us all.


And by the way... yes, when someone is telling blatant falsehoods -not "technicalities", but completely contradictory-toreality accounts- about what someone has said about their own work, one should not be surprised if the person who is being misrepresented will speak up... and that knows no national borders.

And if a script is available for the TFcon reading, I'm sure it'd be an interesting read. It's honestly good to see a fan-run convention do well... it's the mark of a healthy franchise. When fan-run shows are no longer able to support themselves, then I begin to worry about the strength of the brand.


- GS

[Protoman]

I'd just like to point out that this is an almost complete fabrication on Protoman's part. The only element of truth is that yes, Trent and I wrote "Bee in the City" and several other pieces for the Official Transformers Collectors' Club website and magazine (all of which goes through Hasbro's approvals process just like anything IDW does). The BC05 script predated our involvement with FP.


- GS

Excuse me, replace last 2 with 2. My bad. I know you did 2 of them, I just thought it was along with the 2007 one. Amazing you came here all over this Greg.

[Magnimus]

I'd just like to point out that this is an almost complete fabrication on Protoman's part.

Or Protoman is simply mistaken or operating under a misconception whereas "complete fabrication" has a harsh negative connotation that implies one is actively constructing a falsehood.

[Protoman]

Or Protoman is simply mistaken or operating under a misconception whereas "complete fabrication" has a harsh negative connotation that implies one is actively constructing a falsehood.

It's ok Mag, I got this one. Greg is like this. :cool:

[Nightshade83]

Sorry guys, for getting a little worked up about this. To be honest, all I wanted to know was whether or not it was official. If it was, then Nightbird could have been added to the "Female Transformers" list at Teletraan, which would have been cool.

I just like to keep things at least somewhat consistant with established canon for my fanfiction. I'm studying to be a professional editor, so I tend to go overboard my attention to details. Usually that's a good thing, but I guess not in this case.

I just wanted a fellow writer who actually has a shot at official recognition to get the credit he deserves.

Sorry. I didn't mean to cause a fuss.

[Dispensor]

I was just pointing out that M Sipher joined all of a few hours ago just to point out a technicality. He has no other interest in this site. I don't really give a flying frag where he's from, if it weren't obvious.

Why shouldn't he feel the need to personally get involved in a matter that concerns him?

Folks, I have known M_Sipher for almost ten years now. I know him to be many things. Dishonest is not one of them. If he says Protoman has misrepresented his stance on the canonocity of the work he and Trent Troop did for Botcon, then he is to be believed. Period. Indeed, I can't imagine why he or Trent would ever claim what Protoman said they did.

I'm not going to speculate on Protoman's motives, because I know him to be a very generous and likeable person who has put alot of hard work and dedication into TransformersCon.

Motives aside, this is the sort of situation that can easily get out of hand, and for the sake of all parties, AND BOTH CONVENTIONS, I strongly urge that the matter be dropped here and now. There's absolutely nothing to gain and definitely something to lose here, people.

[Nightscrabbler]

It's impossible to prevent this from getting out of hand, it's a discussion on the canonality of Transformers fan-fiction, the most pressing matter in the world today.

Hey, can you post a transcript of this year's reading, JL? If it's no inconvenience. I didn't get to hear it all.

[Protoman]

It's impossible to prevent this from getting out of hand, it's a discussion on the canonality of Transformers fan-fiction, the most pressing matter in the world today.

Hey, can you post a transcript of this year's reading, JL? If it's no inconvenience. I didn't get to hear it all.

It's true... do we have a solid spot with all the past scripts uploaded?

[Vangelus]

It's Canonicity!! ONLY ONE O.

[JLvatron]

I know you did 2 of them, I just thought it was along with the 2007 one.

BotCon didn't have 1 in 2007. Or 2006. As hinted if there was a 2005 1 it was carry over.

[JLvatron]

It's impossible to prevent this from getting out of hand, it's a discussion on the canonality of Transformers fan-fiction, the most pressing matter in the world today.

Hey, can you post a transcript of this year's reading, JL? If it's no inconvenience. I didn't get to hear it all.

Canonicity is important to TF fans. While heated at times, it shouldn't get out of hand.

No, I won't be posting my transcript under conditions of hostility. Maybe in the future after things calm down.

[JLvatron]

Sorry guys, for getting a little worked up about this. To be honest, all I wanted to know was whether or not it was official. If it was, then Nightbird could have been added to the "Female Transformers" list at Teletraan, which would have been cool.

I just like to keep things at least somewhat consistant with established canon for my fanfiction. I'm studying to be a professional editor, so I tend to go overboard my attention to details. Usually that's a good thing, but I guess not in this case.

I just wanted a fellow writer who actually has a shot at official recognition to get the credit he deserves.

Sorry. I didn't mean to cause a fuss.

You did not cause any fuss, good shader! :)
Your intentions were very nice, and I thank you for the generous compliments. Your attention to detail is NOT a bad thing at all!

I guess some fans can see a Hasbro endorsed thing as Canon, while others hold different criteria. It';s all good. :cool:

[JLvatron]

while Nightbird getting an alt mode in TFCon's script reading

Here's a trivia : What was Nightbird's alt mode, alluded to in the script reading?

[GMfan]

Transformers, however... has no such edicts. Hasbro or Takara have never said "no, this doesn't count", and it's highly unlikely they ever will. Both have in fact gone to great lengths to be as fictionally all-inclusive as possible... Takara more maddeningly obsessive, given the colosso-G1 ultimate timeline they put out a year or so ago online and through Kiss Players, which ties pretty much everything outside of the Unicron Trilogy stories into a single uber-G1 series... and also retcons Galaxy Force as a post-Super Link series. Self-reference, epsecially obscure self-reference, has become the order of the day.

Basically, everything approved IS canon.

So Hasbro and Takara have never said "no this doesn't count" but I highly doubt they ever said "everything we approve IS canon". Unless you can prove otherwise you just come accross as someone who wants his work to count as canon. Nothing wrong with wanting recognition but don't pop yourself on a self proclaimed pedostal.

[Nightscrabbler]

It's Canonicity!! ONLY ONE O.

I was trying to make up a word to up the sarcasm factor. I didn't know there was an actual word for it. Hmm.

[JLvatron]

In the BotCon script, what was the reference for Cell block 1-1-3-8?
I can't remember where I heard it, but the crowd reacted.

[Nightshade83]

Here's a trivia : What was Nightbird's alt mode, alluded to in the script reading?

She was a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle. Brilliant! :p

I tried out for Nightbird's voice acting part; I didn't get it, but it was still fun just to try!

I can't wait until next year's script, official or not. :cool:

[General Tekno]

Heh - couldn't remember what Nightbird became. Though I did read her with a heavily mechanical Shockwave inspired logical CPU adlibbing.

Was kinda funny how many other guys auditioned for her.

[Edwin]

In the BotCon script, what was the reference for Cell block 1-1-3-8?
I can't remember where I heard it, but the crowd reacted.

It was a line from SW: A New Hope. I'm not sure, but I think it was Marty Isenberg who replied with the seemingly improvised, "I don't get that joke!"

Mike "E"

[Vangelus]

I was trying to make up a word to up the sarcasm factor. I didn't know there was an actual word for it. Hmm.

I really hate doing this, but:

I was joking there. The crux of the joke being my false and ludicrous personal claim to not only inventing the word "canonicity", but then becoming picky about it's spelling. The humour then bending itself around how this thread was getting far, far, far too hardcore-serious. :D

[Magnimus]

I really hate doing this, but:

I was joking there. The crux of the joke being my false and ludicrous personal claim to not only inventing the word "canonicity", but then becoming picky about it's spelling. The humour then bending itself around how this thread was getting far, far, far too hardcore-serious. :D

Wait, are you being funny now too? Damn these internets and its lack of nonverbal cues! :p

[Evan]

It may not apply to a certain "continuity family" (RiD is basically its own animal, though Car Robots isn't anymore)...
I'm going to start a whole new debate here (sigh), but in regards to RiD...:D Yes I realize that the word "basically" is in there, but let's not forget that Slapper (I think it was Slapper, correct me if I am wrong) used the line "What do I look like, a Vehicon drone?" So while I realize it was a nod to the fans, technically this puts in it in the BW/BM universe. And yes I do have an excuse to back it up, but it may have a few holes in it. :)

[Aernaroth]

It's Canonicity!! ONLY ONE O.

Every time you argue about canonicity, Vangelus kills a kitten.


Please, think of the kittens.



Also, the thing about TF canon is that its never been explicitly stated by anyone with "SUPREME TRANSFORMERS AUTHORITY" what counts as canon, meaning all of these debates boil down to a matter of personal opinion. If everything hasbro has approved counts as canon, then everything from the Decepticon Patrol colouring book to The Great Car Rally storybook and everything else is canon as well.

But like I said, its an academic debate until someone with absolute authority over the tf universe, a Vaticon, if you will, lays down the law. And I don't think such a person exists.

Also, the whole Star Wars argument is a bad example, since George Lucas has a nasty habit of saying something is official canon, then rescinding that edict a few years down the road. Hell, he can't even keep his own continuity straight.

So chill.

[General Tekno]

I'm going to start a whole new debate here (sigh), but in regards to RiD...:D Yes I realize that the word "basically" is in there, but let's not forget that Slapper (I think it was Slapper, correct me if I am wrong) used the line "What do I look like, a Vehicon drone?" So while I realize it was a nod to the fans, technically this puts in it in the BW/BM universe. And yes I do have an excuse to back it up, but it may have a few holes in it. :)

No it doesn't.

It could very well be that Vehicon drones were used at some prior point in the RiD universe.

[JLvatron]

I'm going to start a whole new debate here (sigh), but in regards to RiD...:D Yes I realize that the word "basically" is in there, but let's not forget that Slapper (I think it was Slapper, correct me if I am wrong) used the line "What do I look like, a Vehicon drone?" So while I realize it was a nod to the fans, technically this puts in it in the BW/BM universe. And yes I do have an excuse to back it up, but it may have a few holes in it. :)

BM Universe included G1. G1 had Decepticons.

RiD created the 1st Decepticons in present day.

Therefore not the same universe.
Although Megatron was as crazy as Galvatron so maybe he was just talking nonsense. ;)

Evan, I'd like to hear your excuse!

[JLvatron]

Also, the thing about TF canon is that its never been explicitly stated by anyone with "SUPREME TRANSFORMERS AUTHORITY" what counts as canon, meaning all of these debates boil down to a matter of personal opinion. If everything hasbro has approved counts as canon, then everything from the Decepticon Patrol colouring book to The Great Car Rally storybook and everything else is canon as well.

But like I said, its an academic debate until someone with absolute authority over the tf universe, a Vaticon, if you will, lays down the law. And I don't think such a person exists.

Also, the whole Star Wars argument is a bad example, since George Lucas has a nasty habit of saying something is official canon, then rescinding that edict a few years down the road. Hell, he can't even keep his own continuity straight.

So chill.

Well said, Aern. :cool:

[GMfan]

BM Universe included G1. G1 had Decepticons.

RiD created the 1st Decepticons in present day.

Therefore not the same universe.
Although Megatron was as crazy as Galvatron so maybe he was just talking nonsense. ;)

Evan, I'd like to hear your excuse!

The first Decepticons had upside-down G2 Autobot symbols?

[JLvatron]

The first Decepticons had upside-down G2 Autobot symbols?
Hah!

Not until they combined. :p

[JLvatron]

It was a line from SW: A New Hope. I'm not sure, but I think it was Marty Isenberg who replied with the seemingly improvised, "I don't get that joke!"

Mike "E"

Forgot to thank you for the answer.

[Aernaroth]

The first Decepticons had upside-down G2 Autobot symbols?

Which I heard was because they didn't want to bother remoulding Scourge's disc shaped projectiles, which had a g2 autobot symbol on them.

[Protoman]

BM Universe included G1. G1 had Decepticons.

RiD created the 1st Decepticons in present day.

Therefore not the same universe.
Although Megatron was as crazy as Galvatron so maybe he was just talking nonsense. ;)

Evan, I'd like to hear your excuse!

Atleast in the Robots In Disguise universe. In the Japan G1 Continuity, Car Robots actually happens inbetween 2000 and 2001, when G1 Convoy chases G1 Megatron back to Cybertron and leaves Fire Convoy in charge to watch over Earth till he returns. This was all straighten out and explained by Takara in the extras at the back of the Kiss Play Manga Compilation. Personally G1 Japan is my favorite continuity (G1 Season 1-2, Car Robots, Scamble City, TF: The Movie 1986, TF:2010, Headmasters, Masterforce, Victory, Zone, Return of Star Convoy, Operation Combination, and stick some manga bridges in there too)

[JLvatron]

Personally G1 Japan is my favorite continuity (G1 Season 1-2, Car Robots, Scamble City, TF: The Movie 1986, TF:2010, Headmasters, Masterforce, Victory, Zone, Return of Star Convoy, Operation Combination, and stick some manga bridges in there too)

Trypticon appears in Scramble City. How does that fit with his future birth in Five Faces of Darkness?

[Aernaroth]

Trypticon appears in Scramble City. How does that fit with his future birth in Five Faces of Darkness?

They probably do what they did in american continuity with the constructicons: Pray nobody noticed.

But I think we're getting offtopic here.